UAI is not quite as useful for Bards as it is for other rogues, as they can already use practically any item. Furthermore, wearing otherwise restricted armor still prevents spell-casting. The only tangible benefit UAI nets you is the ability to wield otherwise restricted weapons, (Carsomyr comes to mind). As for alternatives, Spike Trap remains as OP as ever, Time Trap trap lets your Bard cast a mini Time Stop, and the enhanced Bard song eliminates the most glaring deficiency of the Blade kit.
The only tangible benefit UAI nets you is the ability to wield otherwise restricted weapons, (Carsomyr comes to mind)
you say that like it isn't a big deal
epic bard song is pretty cool as it allows you to get up to some nice clone shenanigans
uai is not as good for a bard and probably even less so a blade as your going to be dual wielding most likely. Afore mentioned carsomyr on other bard kits though is pretty sweet there's also a few bits and peace's a blade would do nicely with
also its worth noting that at the moment bards are only able to lay one trap at a time so don't go wasting all your picks on traps
It isn't, to me. On the rare runs I do use Carsomyr, I give it to a Paladin or an actual thief. If I'm playing a Blade, I'm almost always going to dual wield with him or her, and the Scarlet Ninja-to, while nice, doesn't trump a Spike Trap or the enhanced song, in my book. After all, you only get one APR with your offhand weapon, (two under Improved Haste). I don't really enjoy Blades anyway. I'd rather play a Jester or vanilla Bard, but that's a RP preference of mine, and I don't fault anyone for using and enjoying the kit I'm not saying UAI is useless, quite the opposite, it just isn't my first pick on a Bard.
The only tangible benefit UAI nets you is the ability to wield otherwise restricted weapons, (Carsomyr comes to mind).
I ask out of idle curiosity. Carsomyr is a Holy Avenger. Not only is it restricted to Paladin use, but (in PnP) it would normally be restricted to Lawful Good use, wouldn't it? I want to say in PNP even picking the thing up with a different alignment would cause the wielder to take damage (though it's been years so I could be completely off base on this). And if so, should UAI be able to override Alignment requirement?
Again, for curiosity sake as much as anything else.
Edit: And can Assassins get that ability? Artemis Entreri wielding a Holy Avenger. It boggles the mind.
The only tangible benefit UAI nets you is the ability to wield otherwise restricted weapons, (Carsomyr comes to mind).
I ask out of idle curiosity. Carsomyr is a Holy Avenger. Not only is it restricted to Paladin use, but (in PnP) it would normally be restricted to Lawful Good use, wouldn't it? I want to say in PNP even picking the thing up with a different alignment would cause the wielder to take damage (though it's been years so I could be completely off base on this). And if so, should UAI be able to override Alignment requirement?
Again, for curiosity sake as much as anything else.
No argument here - wielding Carsomyr with a non-LG character is tantamount to cheese, in my opinion. To me, it takes away from the unique nature of the weapon.
It isn't, to me. On the rare runs I do use Carsomyr, I give it to a Paladin or an actual thief. If I'm playing a Blade, I'm almost always going to dual wield with him or her, and the Scarlet Ninja-to, while nice, doesn't trump a Spike Trap or the enhanced song, in my book. After all, you only get one APR with your offhand weapon, (two under Improved Haste). I don't really enjoy Blades anyway. I'd rather play a Jester or vanilla Bard, but that's a RP preference of mine, and I don't fault anyone for using and enjoying the kit I'm not saying UAI is useless, quite the opposite, it just isn't my first pick on a Bard.
sure just having fun, also I agree about not enjoying blades I don't like them for rp reasons (just don't feel like bards to me). But if I was playing one I probably wouldn't care to much about UAI all I think you'd get out of it is the ninja-to and Montolios cloak possibly. Although tbh I dont much like using traps on a bard either(feels wrong) my first pick would always be the song for both rp and practicality.
I ask out of idle curiosity. Carsomyr is a Holy Avenger. Not only is it restricted to Paladin use, but (in PnP) it would normally be restricted to Lawful Good use, wouldn't it? I want to say in PNP even picking the thing up with a different alignment would cause the wielder to take damage (though it's been years so I could be completely off base on this). And if so, should UAI be able to override Alignment requirement?
With the way holy avenger powers are worded in PNP, the sword actually unlocks abilities in the paladin to dispel magic and smite evil. So even if a thief could override the alignment requirements with UAI, the holy avenger would only act like a +2 sword.
I think that UAI should enable the thief to literally 'use any item', because that's what the ability is called, but I agree that for certain (race or alignment-restricted) items, not many, a penalty ought to be in place. Doesn't have to be a major penalty, but just enough to make one think 'hmm maybe I should just leave this weapon /piece of armor / etc in the hands of [fill in NPC]'
Another option would be to penalize certain class skills when a thief uses an item that wouldn't be accessible to him without UAI. For example, a kensai's fighting prowess is directly related to their custom not to use any armor. So it would make sense that once a kensai-thief dual with UAI decides to don a specific type of armor, a penalty applies to his thac0 or damage rather than a reduction of the armor's beneficial effects. Likewise a cleric/thief who starts using a weapon irreconcilable with his ethos, a penalty would apply to the character's clerical skills and not to the usefulness of the weapon. (I'm not very enthusiastic though about ethos-based weapon restrictions for clerics, unless these restrictions would differ per faith.)
I can imagine that this would be difficult to implement. Besides I think that UAI doesn't necessarily overpower the thief. If there is such a thing as an OP class it has to be the mage.
Ruscoe
Member Posts: 126
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I haven't played with Thief HLAs much, but that seems the most obviously OP one.
As for alternatives, Spike Trap remains as OP as ever, Time Trap trap lets your Bard cast a mini Time Stop, and the enhanced Bard song eliminates the most glaring deficiency of the Blade kit.
epic bard song is pretty cool as it allows you to get up to some nice clone shenanigans
uai is not as good for a bard and probably even less so a blade as your going to be dual wielding most likely. Afore mentioned carsomyr on other bard kits though is pretty sweet there's also a few bits and peace's a blade would do nicely with
also its worth noting that at the moment bards are only able to lay one trap at a time so don't go wasting all your picks on traps
I don't really enjoy Blades anyway. I'd rather play a Jester or vanilla Bard, but that's a RP preference of mine, and I don't fault anyone for using and enjoying the kit
I'm not saying UAI is useless, quite the opposite, it just isn't my first pick on a Bard.
Of the useable skills, I'd say Greater Evasion or Spike Trap...
Again, for curiosity sake as much as anything else.
Edit: And can Assassins get that ability? Artemis Entreri wielding a Holy Avenger. It boggles the mind.
although I would say I like uai on regular bards
For example, a kensai's fighting prowess is directly related to their custom not to use any armor. So it would make sense that once a kensai-thief dual with UAI decides to don a specific type of armor, a penalty applies to his thac0 or damage rather than a reduction of the armor's beneficial effects.
Likewise a cleric/thief who starts using a weapon irreconcilable with his ethos, a penalty would apply to the character's clerical skills and not to the usefulness of the weapon. (I'm not very enthusiastic though about ethos-based weapon restrictions for clerics, unless these restrictions would differ per faith.)
I can imagine that this would be difficult to implement. Besides I think that UAI doesn't necessarily overpower the thief. If there is such a thing as an OP class it has to be the mage.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/452902/#Comment_452902
1. UAI (to use shields, helmets, holy avenger, scarlet ninja-to, etc., when necessary)
2. Improved bard song
3. Spike traps (killed Draconis with 5 of these, heh)
I didn't bother with anything else, except a couple of time stop traps.