Slings and arrows of outrageous furtune?

the_spyder

So, I'm restarting "Again" and this time with a human Assassin, a class I've never played in BG. I rolled up the character and started traipsing through Candlekeep with my long sword and short bow when I got to thinking this is a bit too generic for my taste. I fancy a cross between Artemis, Vlad Taltos and The Grey Mouser and somehow Bow and arrow doesn't fit into my vision of this character. So I got to thinking about other options.

I thought about sling, but somehow just can't make that work in my mind for this character. Personal preference and nothing more.

I can totally see this character using darts. In the past, I would normally relegate any Darts to my mage, but... I know there is an encounter with a Dart thrower in BG1. I also know that halflings do wonders with Darts. So it is at least viable. any 'Significant' reason not to go with Darts instead?

CrevsDaak

I've been playing multi-player with @Quartz and he created a Half-Orc assassin, it's the most OP thing ever because he uses Throwing Daggers, that add STR bonus, so it deals an insane amount of damage, plus backstab and traps, you can make a solo run.

Heindrich

I hate the prevalence of slings in BG, especially how you can somehow use it whilst using a shield, whilst you cannot do so with a crossbow or bow.

A sling takes a lot of skill to use, lacks armour penetration and requires a lot of space to use. Try swing a sling in a narrow dungeon!

So basically I'd pick darts over slings any day! I've never tried it as a primary weapon, but there does seem to be a lot of darts in BG 1. In BG 2 you might have a problem with (lack of) high enchantment ammo, as I don't recall finding many darts in SoA and ToB.

the_spyder

I don't intend my ranged weapon to be my "Primary" weapon as I still fancy the up close and personal sword and dagger (again, ala The Grey Mouser or Artemis Entreri) "to make it personal". I just never make a character that doesn't have some amount of ranged support as well (except my Cavalier).

atcDave

I did a fighter mage once with Dart specialization. I didn't continue him into BG2, no reason. But I would say he was VERY effective throughout BG1, he probably cast fewer spells than any other mage I've ever run, just because he cause so much hurt so fast without spells. But geez, inventory management was a bear!

the_spyder

LOL. yeah, I've always hated the inventory management system for darts. but EE allows stacks of 80, right? So should be slightly less than the 20 it used to be. Still, there should be a better way to do it.

And at least it isn't throwing Axes that way a TON to carry around any amount at a time. And with them being 100% unrecoverable, really means if you want to rely upon them at all, you have to weigh down with just them.

KidCarnival

In BG2, it's still an option. The Crimson Dart makes up for the lack of various magical darts - first, you're an assassin, you poison weapon and voila, one of the best "magical" versions of darts you want (only stunning would be equally good and have a different effect). And second, it eliminates the inventory tetris alltogether.

ZaknafeinBaenre

Go darts and nab the cloak of the stars that creates +5 darts Darts are actually pretty nice, and nobody really uses them, but I like them better than the sling. If you ever stand a slinger next to a dart/knife thrower, or a bow, you'll see the sling fire 1 bullet while the rest fire 3 or 4. That's basically the reason you can use a shield with a sling.

the_spyder

Hey, thanks everyone for chiming in. All EXCELLENT feedback and I really appreciate it. I'm sold on switching to darts as my ranged. I'm excited about this play through. Now I just have to pick my team.

CrevsDaak

atcDave said:

I did a fighter mage once with Dart specialization. I didn't continue him into BG2, no reason. But I would say he was VERY effective throughout BG1, he probably cast fewer spells than any other mage I've ever run, just because he cause so much hurt so fast without spells. But geez, inventory management was a bear!

Yeah, I've done the same in BG:EE too, Darts of Stunning and then running close in melee, or Wand of Stunning and then using Darts of Wounding.

the_spyder

Yeah, I'm kind of excited about Darts of Stunning with this character. I normally stockpile them to such an extent that I have to leave them in the Planar Sphere (which is usually my base of ops) in a chest. Now I might actually use them. I'm giddy about the prospect.

Schneidend

Darts rock. I've been having Montaron use them in BG1 and Hexxat use them in 2. Use darts for their neat effects and throwing daggers for damage.

the_spyder

So, tangentially, if I have proficiency in dagger, does that translate to throwing dagger?

CrevsDaak

the_spyder said:

So, tangentially, if I have proficiency in dagger, does that translate to throwing dagger?

Yes.
And a free cookie. Maybe.

Corvino

Well, seeing as you're using daggers anyway then they're definitely a viable option though with lower APR. You do have to opportunity for strength bonuses to them as well, which may make a big difference post-strength tome.

Darts are probably the stronger option when paired with Assassin's poison though.

Belanos

Heindrich said:

I hate the prevalence of slings in BG, especially how you can somehow use it whilst using a shield, whilst you cannot do so with a crossbow or bow.

That just makes sense to me. You need two hands to manage a bow or crossbow. A sling is just a small piece of leather or rope that you twirl in one hand until you let go of one end of the strap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sling_(weapon)

The only unrealistic aspect of it is that you need two hands to load it up in the first place.

Lemernis

Darts are really powerful in BGEE. I've been meaning to create a grandmaster dart thrower for some time, just haven't gotten to it yet.

I've also often wanted to try a halfling Fighter who grandmasters in Sling, given the bonus halflings get for it. Not that the bonus would matter that much. I'd be curious to see how he or she does alongside Coran, for example. But anyhoo.

Necomancer

This is making me want to play a fighter who uses darts and quarter staffs, possibly give him single level of wizzard before dual classing him so he can use wands. I'd then have him constantly use wands and never cast a single spell.

He would claim to be the arch wizzard Thergoal the Brave. Any who question his wizzardly might gets a dart and fireball to the face. Ignore the wand. Its just there for style reasons. Really!

Poor Thergoal. Really, he didn't even leave Candlekeep with Gorion. He ran out because everyone was making fun of him because he claimed to be a wizzard but could not cast a single spell. He ran out sobbing big manly tears, and that, my friends, is how super villains are made.

...Hey, I finally have a concept for an evil CHARNAME!

BelgarathMTH

I've always thought of the crossbow as the archetypal assassin's weapon, because you can crouch in the shadows with one, at the tops of buildings and out windows, even lying prone on your stomach if needed, and snipe your target with a single shot, never being seen. I guess I think that because the crossbow can be used like a modern sniper's rifle, such as Oswald used against Kennedy.

Poison darts fit the image pretty well too, though.

the_spyder

Necomancer said:

This is making me want to play a fighter who uses darts and quarter staffs, possibly give him single level of mage before dual classing him so he can use wands. I'd then have him constantly use wands and never cast a single spell.

He would claim to be the arch wizard Thergoal the Brave. Any who question his wizardly might gets a dart and fireball to the face. Ignore the wand. Its just there for style reasons. Really!

Poor Thergoal. Really, he didn't even leave Candlekeep with Gorion. He ran out because everyone was making fun of him because he claimed to be a wizard but could not cast a single spell. He ran out sobbing big manly tears, and that, my friends, is how super villains are made.

...Hey, I finally have a concept for an evil CHARNAME!

Shouldn't his name be Rincewind?

On a more serious note, another question. It looks like my proficiency slots are going to be hard won and so I want to plan them out properly.

Level 1 = Long Sword and Dart.
Level 4 = Dagger (so I can use the dagger of venom)

From there on, I'm a little worried. I was thinking that Level 8 should be some blunt weapon (like Flail - if that isn't too powergamie) and then level 12 two weapon fighting. But I'm actually wondering about the wisdom of two weapon fighting at all, coming as it does so late in the game (relatively speaking) and the fact that I can't put more than one point into it. On the other hand, it really is the defining proficiency for the character (again ala Vlad Taltos, Artemis Entreri, The Grey Mouser etc...). I kind of want to grab it at 8 instead.

Any thoughts?

Necomancer

@the_spyder I was going to name him Rincewind but decided the only thing that they had in common was a lack of magic and that no one would get the joke.

I am pleasantly surprised by this turn of events and in celebration have edited my post to say wizzard instead of wizard.

Edit:Also I would stick to longswords or daggers and put two slots into two weapon fighting, but thats just me.

the_spyder

@Necomancer - LOL. Rincewind is Da Man. with Da luggage (which I suspect is what happens when a mimic and a bag of holding have a love child).

As for the advice, I thought about that, but really from a concept perspective (i'm a horrible player irl and mainly go for concept), it's gotta be sword AND dagger. Besides, can Assassins get 2 points in Two weapon fighting?