most effective (non-arcane) solo no-reload classes specifically for late-BG2 an TOB? (spoilers)
Blackraven
Member Posts: 3,486
Which classes do you consider the most likely to survive the mid-late BG2 & TOB portion of a solo no-reload run through the trilogy?
This thread is inspired by the following thread: forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/30684/best-class-for-a-no-reload-bg1-bg2-tob/p1, but the focus is different, as my question doesn't take BG1 or early BG2 into account. I have sufficient knowledge of and experience with BG1 and early BG2 to be able to get by without reloading provided I'm careful enough. But late BG2 and TOB have a couple of very overwhelming (mandatory) fights, especially with difficulty-improving mods such as SCS and Ascension. I'm thinking of the (improved) encounters with Bodhi, Irenicus in hell, Sendai, Mel.
I'm asking about a 'solo' venture not beacuse I "need" to solo but because any class, even the weakest, could probably survive a no-reload run if surrounded by the right companions to do the dirty work.
Also, I'm particularly interested in any non-arcane classes, as I see it as a challenge to break through the arcane hegemony in the later parts of the saga.
Otherwise a fighter/mage, gnome fighter/thief/illusionist (I have no issues with adding a kit to a multi-class), sorceror will the likely answers.
Any thoughts are most welcome!
This thread is inspired by the following thread: forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/30684/best-class-for-a-no-reload-bg1-bg2-tob/p1, but the focus is different, as my question doesn't take BG1 or early BG2 into account. I have sufficient knowledge of and experience with BG1 and early BG2 to be able to get by without reloading provided I'm careful enough. But late BG2 and TOB have a couple of very overwhelming (mandatory) fights, especially with difficulty-improving mods such as SCS and Ascension. I'm thinking of the (improved) encounters with Bodhi, Irenicus in hell, Sendai, Mel.
I'm asking about a 'solo' venture not beacuse I "need" to solo but because any class, even the weakest, could probably survive a no-reload run if surrounded by the right companions to do the dirty work.
Also, I'm particularly interested in any non-arcane classes, as I see it as a challenge to break through the arcane hegemony in the later parts of the saga.
Otherwise a fighter/mage, gnome fighter/thief/illusionist (I have no issues with adding a kit to a multi-class), sorceror will the likely answers.
Any thoughts are most welcome!
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Comments
As a I said here there are many differents Fighter/Cleric builds that are very powerful, Ranger/Clerics benefite more from Multi-Class (in fact, they don't have benefits from Dual-Class, that's why) than from Dual-Class, since they have good fighting abilities, two points in Two Weapon Style (best weapon style for end-game, where AC matters very little and everything is on how fast you kill your enemies) for free, can specialize in all the weapons a Cleric can use, can also cast Druid spells and has the abilities the rangers has. Unless you are going to kit a Fighter/Cleric multi-class with a Fighter kit, I recommend going Ranger/Cleric instead and setting a Cleric kit (Ranger kits aren't very good for a Ranger/Cleric multi-class) for it's bonuses.
Cleric/Thieves should work much better as dual-class unless you miss the Thief HLAs (which are always a good deal), if you are going to use a kit, I recommend Swashbuckler or Assassin, I don't think that game will allow you to put 2 profs in non-thief weapons as a Swashbuckler/Cleric, but still it could get really powerful in melee (Swashie bonues + Righteous Magic). Assassin/Clerics don't has much RP reasons for a Good Deity, while if you choose an Evil Deity, it can be justified by RP reasons, it will be very powerful, backstabbing with Righteous Magic and staves is very good for SoA, Poison Weapon won't be very good unless you use the Energy Blades HLA that gives you 9 APR, that, combined with Poison can deal a very big amount of damage (this is the best way to kill Dragons, Blackguards still better on this (Poison Weapon + Greater Whirldwind Attack with a ranged weapon) but an Assassin->Mage can do this at Mage level 12 (Melf's Minute Meteors + Improved Haste + Poison Weapon) so they might be better) in a short amount of time (and the damage continues because of the poison, so it's a lot of several time that the damage is inflicted).
You can use the Barbarian kit in a Cleric Multi-Class (yes, the Barbarian is coded as a Fighter kit) and have an insane amount of physical damage reduction (Barbarian's 20%, a Cleric's Armor of Faith's 25%, Hardiness' 40% and Defender of Eastheaven's 20% (105% against everything else but missile that will be 80 unless you use the Belt of Inertial Barrier).
Edit: amazing, I made a wall of text that is also an hyperlink... Why have I missed that A when closing the HTML!
I think that on a next playthrough I'll be going the warrior-cleric route. But that's hypothetical becasue my cleric/thief is still rocking
A dwarven Barby-Cleric sounds really cool though... I had forgotten about physical resistance.
A good combo for solo runs is the Kensai->Thief, but it's too complicated on low levels since you don't have much AC, still, in higher levels you'll get extremely over powered.
Similarly any Paladin who can cast (Mainly Cavaliers) can be good. You can get Deva summons as a HLA for multiple casts per day. A Cavalier + Deva can do a lot of damage between them. Similar to the F/C you get great saves, similar defensive options (DoE, Hardiness, AoF) and the extra option of Carsomyr to take down combat protections when needed. They're not as OP as arcane duals or multis, but I've definitely seen a Cavalier do well in a solo Ironman Let's Play.
I hear you on the thief. My favourite class, but probably with the worst defense of the four main classes (warrior, priest, rogue, wizard).
I've never played much with a paladin (rolled a cavalier once in BG1 but abandoned her), but your argument is compelling. I'll take this into account.
True, if you're willing to hoard scrolls, metagame and micromanage every second then you definitely have options and could solo the game. However, you have much wider margins for error with other classes in no-reload play.
In ToB, as a thief you'll be able to use wands, so if you sell and stole them back you can recharge them everyt time, so you have endless Cloudkills, endless Wands of whatever you want.
Their most valuable feat in TOB is traps I think, but these are susceptible to cheese if one isn't careful.
@Crevsdaak: I agree that vanilla TOB should be doable, even without cheese, with a solo swashmage (even a multi with less spells).
It's the SCS and Ascension mods that have me shit my pants at the thought of having to send my still callow Cleric/Thief against improved Bodhi, improved Irenicus and the five. But that's still a long way from now.
Anyway, without taking the EEs into account, my money is on the Thief/Illusionist. By the end of the game, a character's THAC0, AC, and weapon fighting ability shouldn't matter at all, but rather Saving Throws, stacking immunities/resistances, summons, traps, and using all the best items (Staff of the Magi, Human Skin Armor, etc.) are what's really important.
A few things stand out:
Beware Maze spell (ignores MR), and Charm spells (esp. succubus charms), and of course Imprisonment (demi-liches and elder orbs).
Abazigal is a PITA.
The fights against demons/devils in the maze level of Watcher's Keep in/around the magic dead zones are CRAZY dangerous. That whole level is tough. Make (or get) a map, know exactly what you're up against, and have a very, very good plan for every fight.
You should max out your XP without doing every last thing, so try to avoid sight-seeing and doing every quest and fighting every fight. (This is something I have trouble with.) Just avoid what you can, unless you are after a key item.
@jackjack: yep! that's the route I'm contenmplating, also because I've never played a dwarf. I think I'll roll a female, much less common
As for best non arcane class for TOB, i would also say a ranger / cleric.
Thieves are also great thanks to uai (staff of the magi is great) and traps.
PS : with arcane, sorceror is the best, miles ahead everything else.
Druid spells + Stealth > Weapons grandmastery + dwarven CON/saves?
Perhaps I'd roll a ranger and then keeper it to a shorty. Not necessarily because of the saves, but rather for roleplaying purposes. A female dwarven or gnomish cleric/ranger sounds pretty cool
- weapons grand mastery is not available to multi. And anyway the damage bonus is neglectable at higher levels (and the APR bonus is useless when you spend your time using GWW).
As Corvino said, the key point is the druid spells mostly insect plague and iron skin :
- Insect plague make most mage fight extremely easy. Since mage fights are the real danger of dying, this is a major positive point.
- Iron skin gives you superb survivability against physical attackers
Berserker/Cleric dual is another story because berserker rage gives you VERY neat immunities. So it could be debated.
@FinneousPJ: you're right of course.