NPC's leaving your party with gear on

Zakeros

Also, a matter somewhat related to http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/307/npcs-that-are-holding-together-idea#latest

When you don't go after Dynaheir for too long, Minsc or Edwin may just leave your party. The same goes with having reputation different than the character of your party - they'll eventually leave. And if they go, they've got your gear on, hence you either lose it, kill them and loot out of their bodies or reload. I know it would be irritating if they'd leave the equipment on the ground before leaving... But, I'd like it to be discussed in this thread. Any ideas?

Cadros

I have not had a character leave like that in a very long time, perhaps if they storm off suddenly they could say they are leaving the gear (which the presumably require to get to) at a specific room in an inn of their choice, then the player can go pick it up. That said I don't think Edwin is one to leave graciously and give back any magic trinkets.

HeroicSpur

@Cadros I think this suggestion is more about practicality than realism. Occasionally characters will run off, and it can be extremely problematic if they have lots of gear on them at the time.

Zakeros

@Cadros I like the idea of leaving stuff in the inn - after all, when someone decides to leave your party while being in dungeon, how is he supposed to make it out of it without equipment?

Aliteri

@HeroicSpur

@Cadros I think this suggestion is more about practicality than realism. Occasionally characters will run off, and it can be extremely problematic if they have lots of gear on them at the time.

Still, it does make sense from a storytelling standpoint, this is after all a party-based game.

"Edwin: Since you simians have opted to ignore my request *mumble*something that I should have noticed when we found ourselves hundreds of miles north of our meeting point*munble*, I shall take my leave now.

Charname:Oh, but you're leaving the party loot."

Zakeros

@Aliteri

Remember CHARNAME and his fellows are adventurers - even good / neutral ones are to be feared, and there can be used a little bit of intimidation, so he'd decide to give it back / fight with you (which would fit well to Edwin). But well, I know it's probably too much...

HeroicSpur

@Aliteri you'll note at the end of the BG2 dungeon you conveniently get loaded with all of Imoen's stuff! You could present the same logic there. We've just seen the light of day for the first time in days/weeks, here, let me hand all my stuff over to you!

It doesn't make sense I agree, but I don't think it really harms immersion.

When a party member leaves my party, I rarely find myself thinking, 'Is that how a real party member would exit?' More often I'm asking, have I got all my stuff? and, do I still need them? etc

Aliteri

@Aliteri

Remember CHARNAME and his fellows are adventurers - even good / neutral ones are to be feared, and there can be used a little bit of intimidation, so he'd decide to give it back / fight with you (which would fit well to Edwin). But well, I know it's probably too much...

@Zakeros
But then that'd depend on the place you are in and how Edwin fares - that world reaction wouldn't be complete if he suddenly decide to commit suicide since he doesn't have any spells / you're in the Friendly Arm Inn. I think that much isn't really to be bothered with - after all, never before has any NPC have any qualms with 'you' messing with the inventory.

I think that a easiest way to implement this is to add some way to access the entire party's inventory at once - a window that opens as the npc leaves the party.

@Aliteri you'll note at the end of the BG2 dungeon you conveniently get loaded with all of Imoen's stuff! You could present the same logic there. We've just seen the light of day for the first time in days/weeks, here, let me hand all my stuff over to you!

It doesn't make sense I agree, but I don't think it really harms immersion.

@HeroicSpur
When it comes to immersion, I find that everyone, myself included, have twisted priorities: People have petpeeves and nitpick a lot while there's always something that is twice as bad and ten times as hard to fix from a storytelling standpoint. This 'issue' in particular would be one of those really small and insignificant things, and nitpicking about it would be equally insignificant.

But hey, whenever you can justify a game mechanic with the story, there's no harm there \o/

HeroicSpur

@Aliteri: The window on exit is an excellent suggestion. The only problem is, would that be a lot more work than just getting them to dump their stuff on the spot? i.e. would it be disproportionate for solving the problem?

Zakeros

@HeroicSpur

You can always wonder if Cowled Wizards didn't hand it over. After all, they have been taking her imprisoned, so, seems about right to take her possessions and give them back to the "owner" of her.

But in overall I agree with you, it doesn't have the effect on the gameplay and makes things way easier.

Edit: I'm to slow, that's a response to your previous post, of course

Aliteri

@Aliteri: The window on exit is an excellent suggestion. The only problem is, would that be a lot more work than just getting them to dump their stuff on the spot? i.e. would it be disproportionate for solving the problem?

@HeroicSpur

Perhaps, but that would be a enormous improvement to the UI that solves many other problems.

@Zakeros

I myself always worked with the logic that she drops somethings when the forced teleportation happens, after all the Cowled Wizards wouldn't return you magical things belonging to a magical convict.

Zakeros

@Aliteri it is not illegal to posses magical stuff within the city. You just can't use them, so, they may as well just give Imoen's backpack content to you.

HeroicSpur

I think on further consideration the 'open inventory window on exit' screen is probably the best fix for this problem. Stops allies running away with your stuff, and as Aliteri says may help in some other issues too.

Aliteri

@Zakeros

@Aliteri it is not illegal to posses magical stuff within the city. You just can't use them, so, they may as well just give Imoen's backpack content to you.

Over there in the US its not illegal to possess firearms right? But if you commit a crime with them, those will be taken into custody with you as evidence - rather than being returned to your family.

And I'm pretty sure the Cowled Wizards must love confiscating magical objects and scrolls.

Zakeros

I don't live in the US, so don't ask me, but yea, I suppose

And since Imoen didn't use any, they don't have any reason for taking them.

Aliteri

I don't remember if the Cowled Wizards reprehend you for using magical items, but I'm pretty sure that magic, in all of its forms, is absolutely forbidden of unlicensed arcanists. Imoen used magic illegally and she was taken into custody, why would they return her ways of using magic illegally to her friends after taking her in?

Zakeros

She used her memorized spells. You can't use either them or the magical stuff. But just possessing it never have been confirmed to be forbidden.

Dee

It's not forbidden. In fact, they let you know explicitly that you can use all the magic you want outside of Athkatla, but when you come into the city you're agreeing not to use any of it.

Space_hamster

If/when an NPC leaves unexpectedly, it really makes more sense for them to just leave carrying their own 'stuff'. How is it the main character's stuff if an NPC is carrying it? Does the main character own the weapons and armor the NPC is using? Not really. Sure, it makes sense for NPCs to drop quest essential items, but as for dropping all items and walking away naked...that isn't particularly realistic. If a character leaves suddenly, such as a quest timer expiring, it makes more sense plot-wise and role-playing wise that their absence causes some grief. It makes the game more interesting. This is another case where the current solution makes the most sense, I'm sure the developers pondered this issue when they first created the game.

Zakeros

@Space_hamster

You're perfectly right. It would be more realistic, but if someone who has - for example - Celestial Fury in the backpack runs away, I'd just reload / kill him and loot it. Because Celestial Fury rocks. So, to prevent annoying situations I merely imply to think it through. There was a good suggestion they'd be leaving stuff in the specific tavern. If gear they're wielding belong to them, then they should also carry some of our money. After all, they need coins to survive while going away from the party, so, our money should be split?

And yes, if I gave it to one of my teammates, it is technically still mine. I just want him to use it, and since I CAN take it away, it is mine. I can NOT take Minsc's Boo, Edwin's pendant or Safana's rabbit paw - it is theirs.

Finally, how do you think it would look? "Hey you guys, you annoy me, so I am leaving you. Ciao", and running away? Without even a chance to reply "Stop, you twat, gimme my sword before ya go, or I'm gonna cut you in half" or something like that...

Wonderboy2402

I can recall "freezing" troublesome characters by making them fight a basilisk... Just stone to flesh them when you are ready to thaw them back out.

But when they leave before with your gear, yea that sucks. =[

PhillipDaigle

The obvious solution is to just never equip things on anyone but the main character.

Martijn2

C'mon guys, it would be very awkward if a party member would leave butt naked (figure of speech).

HelmKnight

I believe that the best solution will be the interaction with the NPC. What i mean is that NPC's have personal characteristics guided from the alignment. For example when Keldorn leaves the party because you are super evil then he can deliver the items you gave him to his order (because he cannot trust the items to you) or a chaotic NPC can keep them or sell them.

Lindeblom

I don't really see this as a problem. The unhappy characters are very good at letting you know that you should do this or that (look for Dynaheir or Caravans). When they have told you for 2-3 days I guess they realise you don't care for them as much as you said when you invited them to the party. I agree that it can sting when someone leaves with a wand or good weapon, but it is also part of why I love this game (and have for way to many hours). Listen to your NPC's and their interests and they will die for you, ignore them and they will find better companions. Kind of like IRL.

Stradlin

Personally I've learned to miss various cruelties of older RPGs. Not everything must always be easy,safe and convinient to player.

Razor

And come on, they don't leave THAT much... you really have to do alot of stuff for them to leave. And if they do I agree they should take the equipment, at least Edwin would do it no doubt.

@PhillipDaigle Can you please tell me if "resting" alot would cause npc reactions more often? Was there a resting plan perfect for the game? Or is it a "rest whenever you need Spell or HP"?

Communard

It's pretty easy to fix this just by not having them randomly vanish when they decide you haven't done their quest, but actually have them try to, you know, do their quest. You coud find them somewhere nearby or imprisoned depending on what the quest is, or maybe they've even done the quest already and stolen all that precious XP for themselves

Zakeros

Okay, I see you're all disagreeing with it. But look, I had a situation once - Xzar and Montaron left my party because I didn't go to Nashkel. The thing is I took care of the upper side, which is Friendly Arm Inn and Beregost. I did some quests first and they have decided to leave. It is okay, but they left in the last area before Nashkel. With some of my gear of course.

Just to be clear. I also don't like simplyfing, I merely threw in some discussion

Lindeblom

The game is just preparing you for the day your wife leaves with the kids, the car, the house and all monetary assets.
Nope, she will not give it back by any means ;P

Montaron

Edwin is leaving now for me. As soon as I travel to another spot he leaves my party. The worst thing is that I'm only 1 area removed from the Gnoll Stronghold so as soon as I enter he leaves.. Anyone any ideas on how to keep him?