6.Move the homo-eroticism to Rassaad instead of Dorn
Hear, hear! I really like the gentle but tortured psyche of Rasaad, but he would not romance my male pcs. It could have been a touching story of coming out of closet. Ahh..
As much as I dislike the unfortnate (and, I'm sure, entirely unintentional) implications of both the LGBT NPCs being evil, I gotta say I disagree here. Rasaad, being a not-super-masculine member of a monastic order, would have been a bit stereotypical as gay/bi, imo. Dorn, meanwhile, is an antisocial hyper-masculine loner. I think having him be bi is a much more interesting choice from a writing perspective. It illustrates, quite frankly, that people's sexualities aren't dictated by what seems to "fit" for them, and presents the player with something that they may not have been expecting. I think that's pretty cool.
As much as I dislike the unfortnate (and, I'm sure, entirely unintentional) implications of both the LGBT NPCs being evil, I gotta say I disagree here. Rasaad, being a not-super-masculine member of a monastic order, would have been a bit stereotypical as gay/bi, imo. Dorn, meanwhile, is an antisocial hyper-masculine loner. I think having him be bi is a much more interesting choice from a writing perspective. It illustrates, quite frankly, that people's sexualities aren't dictated by what seems to "fit" for them, and presents the player with something that they may not have been expecting. I think that's pretty cool.
You dare questioning Rasaad's quiet yet firm manliness? Shame on you heathen.
It's not like Beamdog HAD to chose. I would have liked for the 3 (4) NPC to be romanceable by both male and female. It's not that they would be bi: you don't have to include the bisexual aspect since you'll only have one gender in each playthrough. If it adds to their story why not, if it doesn't no need for that.
It's not like Beamdog HAD to chose. I would have liked for the 3 (4) NPC to be romanceable by both male and female. It's not that they would be bi: you don't have to include the bisexual aspect since you'll only have one gender in each playthrough. If it adds to their story why not, if it doesn't no need for that.
Agreed on the first bit. I certainly wouldn't have *minded* a bi Rasaad, I think it's just less interesting than a bi Dorn. Bi Neera and Hexxat would be similarly fine. Frankly, it'd be welcome, given the straight-fest that was the original game.
Now, as for whether to go with them being bi or going the Schrodinger's Gun route... I'm not sure why you wouldn't just make them bi (or pan, but in this game the distinction would be largely irrelevant). I mean, that's statistically unlikely, true, but not really any moreso than all four of them just happening to be the correct unidirectional sexuality to be attracted to the main character.
Agreed on sthe first bit. I certainly wouldn't have *minded* a bi Rasaad, I think it's just less interesting than a bi Dorn. Bi Neera and Hexxat would be similarly fine. Frankly, it'd be welcome, given the straight-fest that was the original game.
Now, as for whether to go with them being bi or going the Schrodinger's Gun route... I'm not sure why you wouldn't just make them bi (or pan, but in this game the distinction would be largely irrelevant). I mean, that's statistically unlikely, true, but not really any moreso than all four of them just happening to be the correct unidirectional sexuality to be attracted to the main character.
I honestly don't care either way although i think that dialogues that delve into their sexual preferences aren't very interesting especially when it would be hard to avoid repetition if you have 4 bi characters.
Schrodinger's Gun (I curse you for sending me into the timesink that is tvtropes) seems much more manageable for a writer and makes in my opinion for a more unique experience.
A mix of both could also be a decent compromise.
Note: When you talked about stereotypes earlier saying it is a bad thing, I'd have to disagree. Stereotypes are nowadays confused for prejudice. Stereotypes help anchoring a story into reality or in this case reduce the need for suspension of disbelief. If every character moves too far away from the "norm", the story becomes unrelatable. Everyone loves a good Drow but they should be very scarce.
I'm not sure it necessarily takes a lot of extra writing to write a bi character. Bi-ness isn't something most of us exactly shout from the rooftops, even if we aren't actively trying to hide it. Of course, if it does come up in a more-than-minor way, I'd probably be more interested than you would, so I may be a tad biased here.
In the interests of full disclosure, my concern here, and my personal vested interest, is the issue of bi invisibility. That's basically that it's really easy to mistake a bi person for a straight person or a gay person, and that therefore a lot of the negative stereotypes surrounding bisexuality don't get challenged by counter-example. When you write characters who could just as easily be bi in Schrodinger's Gun style instead, that tends to perpetuate the whole invisibility thing. Now, I don't think games need to be the spearhead of social change or anything, but given the opportunity I'm generally happier when they're helping than when they're not.
Unfortunately, the last game to try its hand at a broader application of bisexuality was widely criticized for it. I happen to love the way Dragon Age II used romance, but it was perceived by many players as making everyone "Hawke-sexual" - the idea being that if the party members all responded to you in the same way no matter what gender you were, it somehow meant less.
All that said, I do love the fact that Dorn being bisexual completely blows Korgan's mind, and Dorn's comeback is "Have you seen what your dwarven women look like?"
Imoen's taste in decor annoyed me. She falls in love with Ellesime's room yet turns her nose up at Irenicus' quaters, despite being so tastefully decorated.
Unfortunately, the last game to try its hand at a broader application of bisexuality was widely criticized for it. I happen to love the way Dragon Age II used romance, but it was perceived by many players as making everyone "Hawke-sexual" - the idea being that if the party members all responded to you in the same way no matter what gender you were, it somehow meant less.
Well, as always, it easy to critizice and hard to actually do something. There is also truth in what they say based on my note on stereotypes. If you don't use gender stereotypes at some point, it would feel like a genderless romance especially when it comes to sexuality. In a more straightforward way, since male and female genitalia differ, so does sexual behaviour.
for me, Dorn or any other character being bi does not break immersion or make them any less believable- if you create a new charname, you sort of create a new world with new characters and in THIS world Dorn is gay, but maybe in the next he might be straight.
If I may remind you guys, Dorn's bi-sexuality serves a function. It gives evil female characters a romance option which they didn't use to have without mods. And if I was a woman, I'd NEVER date Edwin or Korgan anyway..:D
Btw, Haer'Dalis romance should always have been an option. He's practically built for it.
If I may remind you guys, Dorn's bi-sexuality serves a function. It gives evil female characters a romance option which they didn't use to have without mods. And if I was a woman, I'd NEVER date Edwin or Korgan anyway..:D
To be fair, he didn't have to be bisexual for that. But I think the rationale was simply that, of the three new characters in BG:EE, Dorn was the last person you'd think of as a same-sex romance option; most people (here and elsewhere) assumed it was going to be Neera, because early-era BioWare always had a female bisexual love interest (Silk Fox, Juhani, Liara, Kelly Chambers); and if it was going to be a guy, it'd be the more heroic Rasaad.
And rushed or not, gotta give credit where it's due: Dorn's bisexuality really does come off as part of his personality rather than just tokenism. I don't know that it would have worked as well with Rasaad in a similar context.
Comments
Shame on you heathen.
It's not like Beamdog HAD to chose. I would have liked for the 3 (4) NPC to be romanceable by both male and female.
It's not that they would be bi: you don't have to include the bisexual aspect since you'll only have one gender in each playthrough. If it adds to their story why not, if it doesn't no need for that.
Now, as for whether to go with them being bi or going the Schrodinger's Gun route... I'm not sure why you wouldn't just make them bi (or pan, but in this game the distinction would be largely irrelevant). I mean, that's statistically unlikely, true, but not really any moreso than all four of them just happening to be the correct unidirectional sexuality to be attracted to the main character.
Schrodinger's Gun (I curse you for sending me into the timesink that is tvtropes) seems much more manageable for a writer and makes in my opinion for a more unique experience.
A mix of both could also be a decent compromise.
Note: When you talked about stereotypes earlier saying it is a bad thing, I'd have to disagree. Stereotypes are nowadays confused for prejudice. Stereotypes help anchoring a story into reality or in this case reduce the need for suspension of disbelief. If every character moves too far away from the "norm", the story becomes unrelatable. Everyone loves a good Drow but they should be very scarce.
In the interests of full disclosure, my concern here, and my personal vested interest, is the issue of bi invisibility. That's basically that it's really easy to mistake a bi person for a straight person or a gay person, and that therefore a lot of the negative stereotypes surrounding bisexuality don't get challenged by counter-example. When you write characters who could just as easily be bi in Schrodinger's Gun style instead, that tends to perpetuate the whole invisibility thing. Now, I don't think games need to be the spearhead of social change or anything, but given the opportunity I'm generally happier when they're helping than when they're not.
All that said, I do love the fact that Dorn being bisexual completely blows Korgan's mind, and Dorn's comeback is "Have you seen what your dwarven women look like?"
Imoen's taste in decor annoyed me. She falls in love with Ellesime's room yet turns her nose up at Irenicus' quaters, despite being so tastefully decorated.
There is also truth in what they say based on my note on stereotypes. If you don't use gender stereotypes at some point, it would feel like a genderless romance especially when it comes to sexuality. In a more straightforward way, since male and female genitalia differ, so does sexual behaviour.
Btw, Haer'Dalis romance should always have been an option. He's practically built for it.
And rushed or not, gotta give credit where it's due: Dorn's bisexuality really does come off as part of his personality rather than just tokenism. I don't know that it would have worked as well with Rasaad in a similar context.