Shank is hard!

Ygramul

Well, there I am restarting again with a brand new Sorceror after hours of contemplation. (SCS/no-reload, of course, pondering what would kill me gloriously later: Lavok in the Planar Sphere again perhaps.)

So, Shank...
I cast Blindness at him: he saves - again - again.

I go get some rest and return. Casting Blindness. He goes invisible and poisonweapon-hits me. Dead!

Damn!

And I have been playing BG since it's release in 1999.

*hangs his cape in shame*

EnterHaerDalis

SCS is pretty intense when you're used to the regular mechanics. You have to prepare more efficiently. I'm still reloading alot lol

Blackraven

I've never taken on improved Shank.. But poisoning a first level character inevitably leads to death. Maybe you can steal Dreppin's antidote for first, before taking on the Shankster?

the_spyder

Is blindness really the best choice for first spell? I admit to being a pretty poor player, so I am asking honestly. I'd have thought sleep/Armor would be pretty much the standard first level spells? Or am i wrong? I know that Blindness can be useful later on though so maybe I'm just off base.

Also, check out my other thread.

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/30710/has-anyone-ever-been-killed-by-shank/p1

Necomancer

Times like this I'm tempted to never play anything not a Cavalier again.

Blackraven

the_spyder said:

Is blindness really the best choice for first spell? I admit to being a pretty poor player, so I am asking honestly. I'd have thought sleep/Armor would be pretty much the standard first level spells? Or am i wrong? I know that Blindness can be useful later on though so maybe I'm just off base.

Also, check out my other thread.

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/30710/has-anyone-ever-been-killed-by-shank/p1

Armor and Shield (the latter is better but lasts much shorter) are the only level 1 mage spells that offer physical protection. Sleep and Blindness are great debilitating spells (together with Grease).
So I would pick one of the protective spells (probably Armor, for its duration) and one of the other two, either Sleep or Blindness. I wouldn't consider Blindness a bad choice.

the_spyder

@Blackraven - good to know. I know that Blindness has longer longevity than sleep by virtue of sleep not effecting higher level creatures. I had just always thought that area of effect sleep was, at 1st level, the quintessential spell. But again, I don't claim to be a great player. I just have fun with the game (and usually die a LOT, but that's fun for me). So I'm learning.

elminster

In the normal game I would take sleep over blindness. At least in BGEE. I can't really say what I'd take in the case of SCS.

Blackraven

@the_spyder, I don't consider myself a great player either, at least not as an arcane caster. I've never played a sorcerer. I usually play gnome illusionists (or illusionist combos). I think (specialist) mages get three spells to pick at the start, so I don't have that dilemma.
The advantages of Sleep are its saving throw penalty plus AoE. Blindness has the advantage that it lasts pretty long, and that it can affect higher level enemies (whereas Sleep only works on enemies < level 5 iic).
The saving throw penalty could make Sleep the better pick at level 1, so perhaps you're right in not picking Blindness at character creation.

Ygramul

I don't want the weasel my spell choices later by EEkeeper, so this means no useless spells:

- re: Sleep -- it's broken. In most of BG it acts as "Mass Paralysis" for unbelievable duration! Spell Tweaks fixes this by waking up anyone who is hit, as it should be. Unfortunately, Spell Tweaks was never ported to EE. (I permit myself one memorization of sleep only on regular mages. Never take it on a Sorceror.)

- *best* lvl 1 spell is Blindness. It's even a bit broken: it's duration should only be a few rounds not several turns. Blindness makes impossible difficult enemies tractable at lvl 1 (Cave Bear; Dread Wolf; Ghast; Silke).

- My preferred sorceror spell order is:
Blindness / Shield -> Magic Missile -> Melf -> Mirror Image / Prot Petrification -> ... (mage-duel spells)

I actually did finish BG once (SCS/no-reload) with such a sorceror...

JLee

Interesting...I have never played SCS (I really should try it someday). How do you feel about Spook? I usually start with Spook/Blindness. It's saved me many times in a no reload (although I always manage to die in some stupid way or another anyway).

And congratulations on finishing an SCS no reload!! Vanilla runs I find difficult enough! Although sometimes I feel the greatest challenge is keeping your mental alertness. You get sloppy for one second and it's over.

the_spyder

Ygramul said:

- re: Sleep -- it's broken. In most of BG it acts as "Mass Paralysis" for unbelievable duration! Spell Tweaks fixes this by waking up anyone who is hit, as it should be. Unfortunately, Spell Tweaks was never ported to EE. (I permit myself one memorization of sleep only on regular mages. Never take it on a Sorceror.)

Sleep should cancel when hit, it's true. But you should also be able to coup-de-gras insta kill someone while sleeping. So I don't think this is necessarily a 'broken'. Least wise that is the way my DM always played it. Put em to sleep and slit their throats while they snore.

And it is pretty powerful, admittedly. However, consider the alternatives. non-specialist mage gets ONE casting per day at level 1. Your average fighter can (hp and AC withstanding) hack away at someone with a relatively high chance of damaging them all day long. Individual encounter? Wizard wins. "Dungeon" or campaign? Fighter wins. At least up till level 5 or so. Or that's the theory.

Again, I'm not a power player, but I'd still go Sleep. Besides, don't Sorcerers get the ability to swap out spells? i know they get that in 3E, but I never played a Sorcerer in 2E. Seems only fair if they did.

And there are still kobolds in BG2:EE in several places. orcs as well. I'd bet you continue to get use out of that well into the late game. And what else do you need in level 1. Sleep, armor, Identify, Blindness, Magic Missile. Right?

jackjack

That dude is no joke.

JLee

Unfortunately you cannot swap out Sorcerer spell selections.

It's a whole new thread of its own (and it is fun to discuss), but I like:
Blindness, Spook, MM, Shield, Protection from Evil

Edit: When I play sorcerer it is usually solo. Protection from Evil is obviously not that important if you have a cleric along.

the_spyder

Ah, I forgot Pro from Evil. Very useful if you want to be summoning big bad evil in the late levels. Or so I imagine.

SionIV

Sleep is without doubt the more powerful spell in BG1. But you'll be able to buy a wand of sleep for a very low cost from the mage in high hedge, it'll recharge with 50 charges if you resell it. That should take care of your sleep problem for the entire game.

mumumomo

Level 1 picks don.t matter much anyway (at least in vanilla. Don't know for scs)

As a sorceror (solo no reload) i take
Sleep : not needed if you start with basilisks, by far the best otherwise
Shield. Please do not take armor. Shield is 10 times better. It makes some fights (tarnesh, nimbul) extremely easy.
And with the girdle from the belt fetish ogre, you get -5ac vs missiles (which are the only dangerous physical attackers. Melee can be avoided or outrun easily). With nimbul boots, you become nearly immune to missiles.
Magic missile : great for disrupting mages.
Spook : i almost never use it. Blindness might be a better choice thanks to much better duration
Chromatic orb : useless in bgee. Not great either in bg2 apart from troll killing.

Other half interesting picks include protection from evil and identify (even though money is quite useless)

Blackraven

@mumumomo, Blindness is very effective in BG1, recommendable.
I think Spook can be useful as well though (good increasing save penalty). Maybe not so much offensively but rather defensively, buying you time to heal, hide etc.
Obviously if your sorecerer is a killer who annihilates everything and everyone that crosses you, you might have little use for Spook. (I've never played a sorcerer, butI keep hearing from many people how powerful they are.)