In what situations would Blindness be more useful than Sleep??

Eadwyn_G8keeper

Basilisks? I am not getting this one and I understand Blindness to be one of the recommended Level 1 Arcane spells.

Are there some important Mages such as Bassilus, Mulahey that are more susceptible to Blindness than Sleep??

elminster

Bassilus and Mulahey are both clerics but for the record most (if not all) of the clerics and mages you come across will be higher than level 4. Sleep won't work on any enemy that is higher than level 4. Mulahey is level 5 and Bassilus is level 7.

Sleep is a great spell because it will disable a large number of lower level enemies. This includes everything from Kobolds to Bandits (including Ankhegs). Its great especially when you are ambushed by enemies or when you simply encounter them in the wild. But if you encounter for instance a named enemy (like Bassilus) chances are it won't work on them.

Blindness is better for spellcasters because a blind spellcaster can't see what they are casting at (and therefore can't cast).

Eadwyn_G8keeper

Got it! Thanks.

enqenq

Also http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0025.html

Ygramul

Blind is way better after the first 1/3rd of the game:

You can blind Ghasts or Ogre Berserkers or Silke or Mulahey etc. removing them from the fight, essentially.
Sleep is useless except against fodder.

Flashburn

Mages are more likely to resist Blindness because their saving throw vs Spell is rather good, but it also completely shuts them down if it works. Against non-shorty fighters, it is more effective because their saving throw vs Spell is weak. Blindness also works on just about everything, as opposed to Sleep's limitations of ≤ 3 HD and stuff that's immune to it (undead, 90% immunity for elves, etc.)

elminster

It's technically 4HD or lower (the spell description is wrong). For instance it'll work on Dire Wolves and Blacktalon Elite even though they are 4HD.

Ygramul

Not in SCS they ain't... (Black Talons get to lvl 5 which makes them a whole different ball game in the Bandit Camp... *gulp*)

elminster

Ok but we're talking about the base game...

If you want to include mods I'm sure there are a number of mods out there that change creature files up to make Sleep (and other spells including Blindness) less relevant.

SionIV

Sleep is the more useful spell in BG1.

BG1 is most difficult at the start of the game when you're low level, sleep takes care of most of the problems you'll have at this point of the game. Blind is more useful on higher level enemies, but when you get to that point you should be high enough level and have access to level 2 and 3 spells, so you won't really need blind anymore.

The rare few places where blind is better than sleep would be a few enemies (Bassilus, silke) that you meet alone, then again these aren't that hard unless you're playing with SCS so it really isn't needed. Once you get to the part of the game where sleep doesn't work that well anymore, you'll have good enough gear and high enough level to handle it.

Blind is a great spell and it breaks certain enemies (Making them stand still doing nothing) but it's nowhere as powerful or useful as sleep.

Wolves? Sleep
Bears? Sleep
Ankhegs? Sleep
Ogres? Sleep
Ogre Berserkers? Sleep
Ogrillons? Sleep
Bandits? Sleep
20 gibberlings / kobolds? Sleep

elminster

It'll work on only certain wolves and bears. It'll work on black bears but not mountain bears, wolves and dire wolves but not dread wolves, vampiric wolves, or winter wolves.

SionIV

elminster said:

It'll work on only certain wolves and bears. It'll work on black bears but not mountain bears, wolves and dire wolves but not dread wolves, vampiric wolves, or winter wolves.

Black bears
Wolves
Worgs
Dire wolves
Cave bears (If i remember correctly)

And i'm pretty certain that i've put down dread wolves with it as well? This would have been in BGT.

elminster

Yea I think it'll work on Worgs and Cave Bears. Dread wolves are undead. If they aren't immune to it outright (which of course is possible) they should be.

SionIV

Are dread wolves undead? So a priest of lathander could throw hold undead on them? Never heard that before.

elminster

Yea they are undead. I believe its one of the issues with creature files that got fixed compared to the original game. Hold Undead should work on them though I haven't tried it.

elminster

@SionIV Well looks like I'm wrong. Dread Wolves aren't undead. They do however get the same ring as undead that renders them immune to Sleep, Stun, Hold, Charm, level drain and a whole host of other things but they are technically classified as being a monster (lore wise as I understand it they should be undead but I'm not sure why they aren't considered it).

Vampiric Wolves are undead. It looks like Hold Undead works on them but not Turn Undead. Bah...can't win lol.

Eadwyn_G8keeper

Ygramul said:

Not in SCS they ain't... (Black Talons get to lvl 5 which makes them a whole different ball game in the Bandit Camp... *gulp*)

I have BG1-ToSC so... When you say BT Elites "get up to Level 5" does that imply that they may be only Level 4 if I do Bandit Camp earlier, for instance before Sirines, Golems and Doomsayer??

SionIV

Eadwyn_G8keeper said:

Ygramul said:

Not in SCS they ain't... (Black Talons get to lvl 5 which makes them a whole different ball game in the Bandit Camp... *gulp*)

I have BG1-ToSC so... When you say BT Elites "get up to Level 5" does that imply that they may be only Level 4 if I do Bandit Camp earlier, for instance before Sirines, Golems and Doomsayer??

He means that if you use the mod SCS (Swordcoast Stratagems) the Black Talon elites will be level 5. If you're not playing with SCS the Black Talons won't be level 5.

Aristillius

Ive used blind a few times against charmed and confused allies to stop them targeting the rest of the party. Very useful against those annoying sirenes ^^
Otherwise, I agree that sleep is good to have in early BG1. My current playthough's sorcerer spellpick was (in order):

Sleep
Magic missle
Shield
Blind
Identify

Worked very well, should have swapped around magic missle and shield though. Also, having identify on a sorcerer with Ring of wizardry is incredibly handy