Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Bushi Kit - Balanced? Comments Please

GreenerGreener Member Posts: 388
edited March 2014 in General Modding
BUSHI: Bushi are masterless warriors, men without ties to a lord, temple, or monastery. They are commonly mercenaries, bandits highwaymen, or wanderers, earning their money however then can. They can be found serving samurai, protecting the court, or swelling the ranks of armies. A few may be kensai who have fallen by the way. Most, however are men of low birth who have chosen the way of the warrior to advance in the world

Advantages:
- May use Ki ability once per day per level (starts at 1st level with one use).

KI: The bushi temporarily raises his effective level by two for one turn. He temporarily gains +15 HP, +2 THAC0 and -2 to all saving throws.

Disadvantages:
- Can't wear armor heavier than splint mail

Post edited by Greener on

Comments

  • Glam_VrockGlam_Vrock Member Posts: 277
    Seems like this makes a pure Fighter obsolete. The no-plate disadvantage is basically negated by the AC bonus, and most people will pick human for dual-classing anyway. Especially with +10% XP.

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    Too powerful kit, the best armors in the game are scale/splint (Dragon armors).

  • GreenerGreener Member Posts: 388
    Thank you for the critique, any suggestions though?

    How about...

    BUSHI: Bushi are masterless warriors, men without ties to a lord, temple, or monastery. They are commonly mercenaries, bandits highwaymen, or wanderers, earning their money however then can. They can be found serving samurai, protecting the court, or swelling the ranks of armies. A few may be kensai who have fallen by the way. Most, however are men of low birth who have chosen the way of the warrior to advance in the world

    Advantages:
    - May use Ki ability once per day per level (starts at 1st level with one use).

    KI: The bushi temporarily raises his effective level by two for one turn. He temporarily gains +15 HP, +2 THAC0 and -2 to all saving throws.

    Disadvantages:
    - Race restricted to human
    - Can't wear armor heavier than splint mail

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 390
    How do you plan on doing the 10% bonus to exp?

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    edited March 2014
    I would say remove the 10% xp boost, there's absolutely no reason for it. Except powergaming ones.

    By the way, with just the "Ki" ability, which is basically the Berserker's Enrage ability, it's pretty bland.
    A Berserker can still be of any race, wear any armor and has the same special ability.

    I would advise on making it more flavorful. Add some unique abilities that no other class has or combine them to form something unique.

    It's a bit hard to do I understand because every almost archetype is covered.
    No armor high damaging Kensai, tanking berserkers, barbarians, stalkers, swashbucklers.

    I would try to think of something that fits a particular niche that no one class can fill or do and work from there.

    Like giving some skills like Pick Pocket if they're bandits or highwaymen and maybe Set Trap.
    Stuff like that.

    meagloth
  • GreenerGreener Member Posts: 388
    wolpak said:

    How do you plan on doing the 10% bonus to exp?

    I used effect (104) XP bonus, Modifier type = set % Value = 110

    I've tested and it works

  • GreenerGreener Member Posts: 388
    Archaos said:

    I would say remove the 10% xp boost, there's absolutely no reason for it. Except powergaming ones.

    By the way, with just the "Ki" ability, which is basically the Berserker's Enrage ability, it's pretty bland.
    A Berserker can still be of any race, wear any armor and has the same special ability.

    I would advise on making it more flavorful. Add some unique abilities that no other class has or combine them to form something unique.

    It's a bit hard to do I understand because every almost archetype is covered.
    No armor high damaging Kensai, tanking berserkers, barbarians, stalkers, swashbucklers.

    I would try to think of something that fits a particular niche that no one class can fill or do and work from there.

    Like giving some skills like Pick Pocket if they're bandits or highwaymen and maybe Set Trap.
    Stuff like that.

    Thank you for your comments...

    I understand what you are saying, I was trying to add in some kits from AD&D Oriental Adventures

    I liked the bushi's ability, perhaps just adding that and removing the armour restriction may work?

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    edited March 2014
    @Greener‌
    I think the armor restrictions are good. The race restriction, I'm neutral about it but I think there's no real reason to keep it to Humans only.

    Perhaps the Bushi ability could scale instead. So it's not providing immunities like the Berserker but it's not identical to it.

    Like +5 temporary HP, +1 THAC0 (improving), +1 AC, -1 to saving throws (improving?) every 5 levels.

    So you don't have the permanent boosts of the Kensai but you don't have the tanking ability of the Berserker + immunities, either.

    Maybe giving them a +1 or +2 THAC0 bonus with the oriental weapons (katana/wakizashi/ninjato) so you don't have Bushi characters with a warhammer or an axe for powergaming reasons but rewarding characters true to the flavor of the class.

    I think that's better balanced. You don't have heavy armor or permanent bonuses (Kensai/Swashbuckler) but Ki (could be changed to Ki Focus) gives a needed edge in battle that improves with levels.

    I think that would be a good rebalance and not needing much else.

    You have an oriental weapon focused character that is something between the Kensai and Berserker.

    When you make a kit or class I think you always need to keep in mind "what does this kit/class offer that the others don't? Why should someone pick this class instead of the other except flavor?"

  • GreenerGreener Member Posts: 388
    edited March 2014
    Thank you for your feedback, to clarify the Ki ability does not provide the immunities that the berserker ability does, this simply temporarily adds HP, THAC0 and saving throws for 1 turn (10 rounds or 60 seconds)

    With regards to scaling where you thinking of something like this?

    Ki:
    level 1-5 +5HP, +1THAC0 -1 to all Saving throws
    level 6-10 +10HP, +2THAC0 -2 to all Saving throws
    level 11-15 +15HP, +3THAC0 -3 to all Saving throws
    Archaos said:

    ...When you make a kit or class I think you always need to keep in mind "what does this kit/class offer that the others don't? Why should someone pick this class instead of the other except flavor?"

    I was using the AD&D Oriental Adventures 1st edition, but I understand your point

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    edited March 2014
    Yes, I noticed that it doesn't provide the same immunities and it's good. I think adding the original AC boost is also good.

    A Berserker/Paladin/Fighter can wear the Splint/Dragon armors too they're not restricted just to them.
    Plus the Berserker can wear Full Plate plus get the AC bonus and immunities, a Paladin can just use spells.

    The Bushi would have to rely on those boosts to improve his abilities in combat.

    Once per day per level might be a bit too much though. A level 10 character can use it 10 times per day.
    A 20 level one, 20 times per day. Which is more than he will ever need.

    1 use per 5 levels, with every boost is good I think.

    And yes, the scaling could be like that.

    By the way, I think the classes should be balanced against themselves and not taken exactly from the books.

    For example the Cavalier is a mounted Fighter kit I think, which is useless in BG. Instead they turned it into one fighting dragons and demons.

  • GreenerGreener Member Posts: 388
    edited March 2014
    Archaos said:

    ...I think adding the original AC boost is also good.

    A Berserker/Paladin/Fighter can wear the Splint/Dragon armors too they're not restricted just to them.
    Plus the Berserker can wear Full Plate plus get the AC bonus and immunities, a Paladin can just use spells.

    The Bushi would have to rely on those boosts to improve his abilities in combat.

    Once per day per level might be a bit too much though. A level 10 character can use it 10 times per day.
    A 20 level one, 20 times per day. Which is more than he will ever need.

    1 use per 5 levels, with every boost is good I think.

    And yes, the scaling could be like that.

    By the way, I think the classes should be balanced against themselves and not taken exactly from the books...

    I've added the AC bonus back into the kit and adjusted the number of KI uses to once per day every 4 levels (considering every 3 levels) lets also remember that it's just THAC0, HP and saving throws not AC or damage

    I'll play around with scaling but considering the changes we've made I'm thinking leaving it be may be appropriate

    Currently the kits stands as...

    BUSHI: Bushi are masterless warriors, men without ties to a lord, temple, or monastery. They are commonly mercenaries, bandits highwaymen, or wanderers, earning their money however then can. They can be found serving samurai, protecting the court, or swelling the ranks of armies. A few may be kensai who have fallen by the way. Most, however are men of low birth who have chosen the way of the warrior to advance in the world

    Advantages:
    - +1 bonus to Armor Class at 1st level, plus an additional +1 bonus every 5 levels.
    - May use Ki ability once per day every 4 levels (starts at 1st level with one use)

    KI: The bushi temporarily raises his effective level by two for one turn. He temporarily gains +10 HP, +2 THAC0 and -2 to all saving throws.

    Disadvantages:
    - Can't wear armor heavier than splint mail

  • GreenerGreener Member Posts: 388
    edited July 2014
    BUSHI: Bushi are masterless warriors, men without ties to a lord, temple, or monastery. They are commonly mercenaries, bandits highwaymen, or wanderers, earning their money however then can. They can be found serving samurai, protecting the court, or swelling the ranks of armies. A few may be kensai who have fallen by the way. Most, however are men of low birth who have chosen the way of the warrior to advance in the world

    Advantages:
    - +1 bonus to Armor Class at 1st level, plus an additional +1 bonus every 5 levels.
    - May use Ki ability once per every 4 levels (starts at 1st level with one use).

    KI: The bushi temporarily raises his effective level by two for one turn. He temporarily gains +15 HP, +2 THAC0 and -2 to all saving throws.

    Disadvantages:
    - May not wear armour heavier than splint mail
    - 4 Charisma

    I was originally trying to code a -4 starting reputation into the kit, but that proved more difficult that initially thought, thus I have instead replaced that with -4 Charisma to best represent those "who have fallen by the way...or are men of low birth"

    The original Oriental Adventures kit includes the +1 bonus to Armor Class every 5th level because bushi are quite often poor and find it difficult to buy and maintain their armour and equipment...their lack of armour gradually teaches them to be nimble on their feet. Thus, in addition to any defensive adjustment a bush may have from a high dexterity score, his armour class improves by one step for every five experience levels

Sign In or Register to comment.