What Baldur's Gate does right? (Lessons for Spiritual Successors)
So we know Baldur's Gate Series has spawned asmall number of spiritual successors:
Neverwinter Nights
Dragon Age
Pillars of Eternity
Just to name the most well known. So I'm curious from a fan's perspective what you think Baldur's Gate did RIGHT that should be focus points for newer successors to take note of?
For me it's always been the class diversity, granted they already had existing rulesets that made balancing easier but the sheer number of classes, kits, multiclasses, and dual classes combined with the number of races and the six party limit gives BG an almost infinite amount of replayability and depth to do challenge modes and so on. It was such a slap in the face when I got Dragon Age Origins expecting a more modern BG to find a measly 3 class system. Honestly I've never found another game since even close to BG's level of class diversity (There's classless hybrid systems like Elder Scrolls but that's a different beast altogether).
So what do you think is it that makes Baldur's Gate such a monumental game even 13+ years after it's sequel came out that modern PC RPGs could really LEARN from?
Neverwinter Nights
Dragon Age
Pillars of Eternity
Just to name the most well known. So I'm curious from a fan's perspective what you think Baldur's Gate did RIGHT that should be focus points for newer successors to take note of?
For me it's always been the class diversity, granted they already had existing rulesets that made balancing easier but the sheer number of classes, kits, multiclasses, and dual classes combined with the number of races and the six party limit gives BG an almost infinite amount of replayability and depth to do challenge modes and so on. It was such a slap in the face when I got Dragon Age Origins expecting a more modern BG to find a measly 3 class system. Honestly I've never found another game since even close to BG's level of class diversity (There's classless hybrid systems like Elder Scrolls but that's a different beast altogether).
So what do you think is it that makes Baldur's Gate such a monumental game even 13+ years after it's sequel came out that modern PC RPGs could really LEARN from?
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Comments
I am also going to add, while doing my utmost to avoid turning it into "what BG does wrong", that I am not particularly fond of D&D itself with so much power in the roll of the dice.
:P
Love the 2nd edition AD&D classes and kits.
There's a way that, for me, BG's 2D isometric overhead view, painted backgrounds, portraits, and voice-acting all come together in a very satisfying way that is emotionally rich and full of warmth. I have sometimes experienced in 3D game engines a kind of blatant artificiality to the movements and facial expressions of the characters. It creates a sort of cold hollow feeling for me. Even though the graphics of BG are comparatively primitive the game world imparts a feeling of warmth and life.
While there is an over-arching plot, you are not forced down its path without diversions to explore. There's always something to find. You can approach conversations and fights in many different ways. There is one weakness to this: the world can feel like its standing still as it waits for you to continue the main plot.
There is a sense of urgency in both games (stopping Sarevok, getting your soul back), but when you learn that you can take 100 days off and the world is the same as it was, it kind of ruins the suspense.
2D graphics.
2D
Battles where careful deliberation is more important than action
Solid and huge (content-wise) rule-set
It starts with 2E rules. Although many previous games had also used 2E. And ToB pushed the system too far. I think they should have ended it at SOA.
Then add the 2D perspective and quasi turn based/real time combat system that was perfectly conceived.
Then a story/game design that allows both exploration and a well scripted story. Although honestly, the whole "Bhaal spawn" thing is really too dark for my taste. But it is so well executed; exciting, well acted, its really a good time.
Then finally an immersive way of bringing NPCs to life; including colorful personalities, individual side quests, and a touch of romance. Perfect execution.
2E rule set is my favorite, & isometric is the best way I've seen it implemented.
Lots of dialogue, some voiced, a great balance there.
Varied, interesting NPCs.
Freedom with consequences.
I love the epic battle musics. Find myself humming some of the tracks during the day. Sound acting is superb in most places. 'It is time for more...experiments!' anyone? Irenicus is THE villain we all love to hate, thanks to fantastic voice acting and characterisation. Sarevok is cool, too. The ToB end boss, not so much, but still it is OK.
NPC interactions and romances really bring the NPCs alive. Most players have their own memories and ideas, likes/notlikes about all of the npcs. Some like some of the characteristics, some hate others. They are just like real life people to players.
No other RPG I know offers such grand and complex spell system. Especially at high levels and with mods like scs, the things magic can do are incredible, and mage vs mage battles feel epic and chess-like.
Speaking of mods, if bg is alive as a franchise today it is due to massive modding community. Truly, the amount of quality mods designed for this game is astounding. People love this game that much, and mods kept bg fresh and playable for over a decade for a large group of players. And now we have enhanced series, with better mod support this will be the future of bg, hopefully for another decade or more.
I should rather say : all other newer RPG are trivially easy. KOTOR, mass effect, ... you can play them no reload in the hardest difficulty with no knowledge of the game. This make a lot of thing (like character development, tactics,...) completely irrelevant
2- there is not 1 good way of playing the game
This coupled with point 1 is what makes it so replayable. You can find plenty of way to beat what is otherwise a relatively-hard game.
3- it's non linear
Once again newer RPG got that completely wrong. You often have the choice between 3-4 places to start with. You go there, you explore everything in a given area then move on to the next.
Neverwinter nights are especially awful for that
4- there is no (or very very limited) level scaling
Level scaling is the worst thing ever. It removes all notion of plannification in the game, it removes the need to come back to an area to kill a monster which was previously too hard. It also removes all sense of character development. What i like in BG is too start a weak character strugglinh to kill a kobold (or umber hulk inBG2) and then being able to slaughter these monsters with ease. None of the newer RPG have that feeling
- Well balanced combat/magic system. (It took them decades to get it right; then D&D license threw it all away.)
- Decent Story. (I'm the hero! -- yes, it's Campbellian, but hey...)
*** and the most important:
- Challenge: makes sense to play a no-reload game.
In NWN1/2 no-reload meant nothing: 1. I can't loose a fight if I play with half a brain 2. I can rest anytime. Game is made for ADHD kids...
In BG, if you ever finish a no-reload game you feel two inches taller!
Variety in Races/Classes/Kits/NPCs - So many variety in different choices you can make as a player makes it easy to replay the game and try out other things with CHARNAME as well as NPC's
Easy Micro-management/6 man party - This may sound wierd to some, but I think BG got some easy micro management. Of course you'll pause a lot and give different commands 10 times during combat, but I like the fact how for a fighter you 'simply' select who he has to attack and then can focus on other things like spells. this makes the game able to play with 6 man groups. In comparison with a game like Dragon Age each character has different abilities you can easy every x seconds, needing you to switch between characters all the time and for me that pulls me out of the immersion of the battle. Then I feel more like don't forget to use that and that and that. In BG instead I give my commands, once done they don't recharge and I move on to the next command.
This also combines well with the variety mentioned above, because such easy management you can create much more different classes without excluding any options in your team
Immersion - This is created by a good story, lots of dialogue/options, NPC banters, lore, music, voice acting and the isometric view. Although the game isn't fancy pancy 3d, the isometric view and the style of the art makes me focus on the grander picture instead of putting my focus on 'LOOK AT HOW REALISTIC THIS IS, THOUGH YOU KNOW YOU'RE PLAYING A GAME AND IT STILL DOESNT LOOK ANYTHING LIKE RL'
Diversity is good! - D&D games have always been really good at providing a great diversity of choices for players to choose from when creating their characters. They are great for making a character that really feels like your own, rather than one the devs created ala commander Shepard IMO. This notably reached an apex in NWN2, where you had a huge list of options to choose from, and it was amazing. Now there certainly were some issues with the game not recognizing 90% of those customization choices. (I have mentioned my hilariously immersion breaking experience with a drow favored soul of Lolth in passing elsewhere) but the important thing was that those choices were *there*. Sometimes I feel like a lot of modern rpgs have been spending a lot of time taking away from customization.
Spells, Spells, Spells! - Baldur's gate (and D&D games in general) have a great selection of spells, and the potential for even more. Even if you never used most of them, they served to, once again-make your character your own by giving them their own spell lists. Less spell choice IMO serves to make all mages feel samey. I think we should be moving in the direction of spell inclusiveness, personally. I'd like to see more spells like detect poison, create food/water, speak to dead etc appear in games, but instead it seems (again) that we are getting fewer in fewer spells.
Just some thoughts.
That, and social banter between party members. Make them interesting, make them charming, make them likable, make them funny. A bad story can be forgiven if the characters you travel with are good, but I find little interest in the story if my travel companions are simple and quiet.