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[MOD][BETA] Tome and Blood: More Options for Wizards and Sorcerers

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  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 771
    Reading the last post on the first page, seeing the ideas about recharging spells. I can't shake the idea that some of you have Darksun's Defilers on the brain. Or maybe it's just me.

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,556
    I'm not attached to specialists at ail

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2014
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,004
    edited September 2014
    @subtledoctor‌ , my main concern was "will I end up spending hours doing this only to have people tell me that there is no interest in such a mod?"

    Fortunately, it appears that people wouldn't be bothered by such a mod, which opens up a lot of options in regards to kit design and spell lists.

    If I take over the kit flags for specialist wizards, it means that up to 8 mage kits can have customized item usabilities and spell availability, which I think could be really cool.

    KamigoroshiSpaceInvaderGrammarsaladDrow_Arrow
  • Drow_ArrowDrow_Arrow Member Posts: 73
    edited September 2014

    @subtledoctor‌ , my main concern was "will I end up spending hours doing this only to have people tell me that there is no interest in such a mod?"

    Fortunately, it appears that people wouldn't be bothered by such a mod, which opens up a lot of options in regards to kit design and spell lists.

    If I take over the kit flags for specialist wizards, it means that up to 8 mage kits can have customized item usabilities and spell availability, which I think could be really cool.

    go for it.. why not aye?

    I don't think i've ever really played any of the specialists... conjurer once or twice but nothing else but even then i'm just as happy playing mage and or sorc. specialists appear to be pretty pointless.

    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,556
  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,004
    Bogged down with schoolwork right now. Concept design is underway, but I doubt that I'll have time for another release in the near future.

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,556

    Bogged down with schoolwork right now. Concept design is underway, but I doubt that I'll have time for another release in the near future.

    I hear you. I'm in the exact same boat...

    Roar
  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,004
    There is a Readme now available in the top post of this thread for those looking for more explanation of the changes that this mod makes.

    In terms of new developments: Warlocks are sketched out, Magi are being worked on. More concept updates to come.

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,004
    Also, @Kamigoroshi‌ , per your earlier request:

    Amorphous Sorcerer [Ooze]

    ADVANTAGES
    - Gains access to a set of Bloodline bonus spells: Grease (1), Melf's Acid Arrow (2), Slow (3), Polymorph Self (4), Protection from Acid (5), Carrion Summons (6), Power Word: Stun (7), Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting (8), Shapechange (9)
    - Gains immunity to Poison
    - At 3rd level, gains a +10% bonus to Acid Resistance. This bonus improves to +25% at 5th level and +50% at 15th.
    - At 10th level, gains a +10% bonus to Crushing, Missile, and Piercing Resistance.

    DISADVANTAGES
    - Has a permanent -1 casting speed penalty.
    - May cast one fewer spell per level.
    - May not summon a Familiar.

    KamigoroshiDrow_ArrowJuliusBorisov
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,876
    It's... it's beautiful! *wipes away a tear*

  • DarkersunDarkersun Member Posts: 398
    Any chance of an update to use these awesome kits in IWD:EE ?

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,004
    Darkersun said:

    Any chance of an update to use these awesome kits in IWD:EE ?

    I don't currently own IWD:EE, so I am unable to troubleshoot compatibility with this mod. However, there are no reasons, to the best of my knowledge, why it shouldn't work right now.

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,556
    edited November 2014
    Iirc, because the mage, wild mage and sorcerer shared the same clab, you disabled the true sorcerer by removing it from the x_y_z.2da's and created the Eldrich Sorcerer in its stead so you could use a unique clab and use the old clab for the wiz and/or wildmage. This has the unfortunate side effect where a player will inadvertantly select the old sorcerer unless they actually click the Eldrich sorcerer in kit selection.

    I'm happy to report that this is not necessary. Though they use the same clab, you can give the sorcerer, mage and wild message each unique abilities using any Opcode that references class.ids and kit.ids. The most useful one, I have found, is use eff #177. The sorcerer and wild mage are the easiest. For the sorcerer you need to reference class.ids #19 (decimal). The wild mage is in kit.ids, though I don't recall off handhand the exact value (can be looked up in near infinity).

    For the mage, you need an extra eff file for each ability because you have to reference two ids files to exclude the wild mage and sorcerer. Contrary to iesdp, entry 1 in class.ids excludes sorcerers (but not wm). True class (forget the value) in kit.ids excludes the wm but not the sorcerer. So you need to use eff excluding one, and then the resource key needs to reference another 177 eff file that excludes the other. You can use this in conjunction with other opcodes that reference kit or class ids files as needed. I've used it eg with change animation.

    Edit: there is still the matter of multi and dual classes. Entry 1 in class.ids probably doesn't detect eg fighter mages. In some cases it may be necessary to put the ability in the other classes clab (eg for a fighter mage, or the ability in the fighter clab.) That would need to be tested

    Post edited by Grammarsalad on
    Aquadrizzt
  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,004
    This is actually something I never thought of... wow, this is a significant improvement. This has potential and I will add it to things I should try for future releases.

    When I have time (most likely starting mid-late December), I'll see if I can get a new release with more features for this.

    As always, more suggestions/ideas appreciated.

    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,556

    This is actually something I never thought of... wow, this is a significant improvement. This has potential and I will add it to things I should try for future releases.

    When I have time (most likely starting mid-late December), I'll see if I can get a new release with more features for this.

    As always, more suggestions/ideas appreciated.

    Glad to help. You can use this method for both AB_ and GA_ entries. I have examples of each that I can upload if you like

    Aquadrizzt
  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,004
    Thank you for the offer. I have worked with these before (i.e. for animation changes for non-human monks) so I should be fine, but I'll let you know.

    Grammarsalad
  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,004
    Also, as the Wild Mage is a kit and not a trueclass, it's associated CLAB can be changed by changing the value in KITLIST.2da. I have already done this in the currently available version.

    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,556

    Also, as the Wild Mage is a kit and not a trueclass, it's associated CLAB can be changed by changing the value in KITLIST.2da. I have already done this in the currently available version.

    That is good to know. I remember trying this and it not working, but perhaps that was in vanilla

  • Drow_ArrowDrow_Arrow Member Posts: 73
    looking forward to seeing the outcome of all this XD good work guys.

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,427
    :O!
    /checks out this thread like a year later.
    Gnomes can be Sylvan Sorcerers! My dreams are complete!

    But er, not sure if I installed wrong or if it's a known bug but the Sylvan things said Int 12, Cha 12 but it appears that it's instead Wis 12, Cha 12. I also don't appear to be getting the bloodline spells.

    I gave the thread a quick read so I may have skipped over where someone else had said this or if there is a known bug section but yeh <_< >_>

    EITHER WAY THIS IS SUPER SPECIAL AWESOME!

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,004
    edited December 2014
    Vallmyr said:

    :O!
    /checks out this thread like a year later.
    Gnomes can be Sylvan Sorcerers! My dreams are complete!

    But er, not sure if I installed wrong or if it's a known bug but the Sylvan things said Int 12, Cha 12 but it appears that it's instead Wis 12, Cha 12. I also don't appear to be getting the bloodline spells.

    I gave the thread a quick read so I may have skipped over where someone else had said this or if there is a known bug section but yeh <_< >_>

    EITHER WAY THIS IS SUPER SPECIAL AWESOME!


    I don't have access to the computer I developed the mod on and, unfortunately, that computer also has my notes about designs. I honestly don't know whether I intended 12 INT, 12 CHA or 12 WIS, 12 CHA...

    I don't know why you aren't getting the bloodline spells. I will investigate.

    Glad that you enjoy the mod. Thank you for the bug report.

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,427
    edited December 2014

    Vallmyr said:

    :O!
    /checks out this thread like a year later.
    Gnomes can be Sylvan Sorcerers! My dreams are complete!

    But er, not sure if I installed wrong or if it's a known bug but the Sylvan things said Int 12, Cha 12 but it appears that it's instead Wis 12, Cha 12. I also don't appear to be getting the bloodline spells.

    I gave the thread a quick read so I may have skipped over where someone else had said this or if there is a known bug section but yeh <_< >_>

    EITHER WAY THIS IS SUPER SPECIAL AWESOME!


    I don't have access to the computer I developed the mod on and, unfortunately, that computer also has my notes about designs. I honestly don't know whether I intended 12 INT, 12 CHA or 12 WIS, 12 CHA...

    I don't know why you aren't getting the bloodline spells. I will investigate.

    Glad that you enjoy the mod. Thank you for the bug report.
    I uninstalled all mods and just reinstalled the game; going to try and install it again to see if it works.

    Edit: No luck T_T
    Maybe I'm just doing it wrong @[email protected]

    Post edited by Vallmyr on
  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,004
    edited December 2014
    Vallmyr said:



    I uninstalled all mods and just reinstalled the game; going to try and install it again to see if it works.

    Edit: No luck T_T
    Maybe I'm just doing it wrong @[email protected]

    Does this happen for all bloodline kits or just for the Sylvan Bloodline? Also, which game/version are you using this on?

    EDIT: (12/22) Just tested the Sylvan bloodline on a fresh install of BG:EE. The sorcerer got Sleep (and all other bloodline spells) upon loading into Candlekeep.

    Post edited by Aquadrizzt on
  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,004
    edited December 2014
    So I'm back and ready to continue my work on this mod. A new release should be coming sometime within the next two weeks or so. Some of the new features of this release will be:

    - Ooze Sorcerer kit
    - Small bug fixes
    - IWD:EE compatability
    - Other features (depending on feedback, see below).

    I would also appreciate feedback or suggestions on the following:

    ARMORED CASTING
    There are many, many options for how to approach this. Some ideas that people have already played with are spell failure chance or casting speed penalty. An alternative that I am considering (inspired by 5e) is that any armor you are proficient in imposes no penalty at all. By default, Mages and Sorcerers would see no difference (as they cannot equip any armor) but armored classes (such as Bards and Fighter/Mages) would see significant improvement (e.g. a Fighter/Mage could wear full plate with no penalty to spells). This is trivially implemented (all I would have to do is mess with usability flags and remove the disable arcane spells effect). However, the balance of this particular implementation is questionable, and opinions on that would be appreciated. Maybe a mix of all of these...

    SPELL SYSTEM CHANGES
    In 5th edition, spells only increase with caster level if you spend higher level slots (i.e. casting Magic Missile in a 1st level slot will always give 3 missiles, but you could spend a 2nd level slot instead to get 4, etc.) Not all spells function like this, but the whole of the system moves away from caster level as an important quantity; spells you learn at first level don't increase in effectiveness as you level (edit: clarification, the DCs [and chance of hitting, in the case of spell attacks] increase with level, but the effects do not). I am thinking about incorporating this into an overhaul of arcane spells. This would would change availability and effects of almost every arcane spell.

    In addition to changes to the arcane spells themselves, I was also thinking about changing the ways that Mages and Sorcerers "interact" with their magic. Mages would not receive the ability to expend higher level spell slots to improve spells. Magic Missile would always be a 1st level spell that created 3 missiles. Thematically, this represents that Wizards learn magic in a formulaic and controlled fashion. On the other hand, Sorcerers can improve certain spells by expending a higher level spell slot. This reflects the innate and unrefined nature of Sorcerer's magic. This could also allow Sorcerers to utilize "metamagic" that would increase effective spell level. Thus, Sorcerers would have more versatility than Mages, but a much more limited spell selection.

    KNOWN SPELLS MECHANICS
    Due to engine limitations, this next update might incorporate the invisible creature trick to allow for custom spell lists for Sorcerer kits (and maybe even Mage kits if I can get it to work). I am worried that such a change would cause decreased interest in the mod. It is not a bridge I wanted to cross, but it seems like it might be necessary if I want to continue expanding this mod.

    Comments, criticism and suggestions welcome, as always. If you would like to see a particular feature, please mention it and I'll see what I can do.

    Post edited by Aquadrizzt on
    Kamigoroshi
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,556
    The best way to do the summon spell trick to grant spells known is via dialog with your summon creature. It can check what spells you have and so not offer them again, and it could give additional offerings if you do have them.

    First of all, you can have the player summon the creature, or you can have the creature summoned automatically by making the ability an AP_... using the cast spell opcode with a delay. In any case, when the creature is summoned, it immediately starts dialog with its summoner.

    First it can check for the characters level. So one trigger will be something like
    IF Level (summoner blah, 3)

    The above will only return true for level 3 characters (with correct syntax for the summoner of course!)

    Then you check for spells. You can do this in two ways. To ensure that you don't grant a duplicate spell, you can only offer a specific spell to characters that don't have it with !havespell(blah). To give 'meta' spells, you can check for the spell, and if it is present, grant the meta spell automatically. Something like:
    IF HaveSpell(magic missile blah) THEN Response #100 ReallyForceSpell(spell granting spell blah, target blah)

    Is definitely a lot of work, but I think the end result will be worth it. I'm already working on this. If you want, I can share the base skeleton with you when it's done, which should duplicscrolle standard sorcerer spell selection. You could just make changes as needed.

    I should also mention that this idea is not my own. It is adopted from atweaks scribe scroll component. I plan to use this method to do a brew potion, craft wand, scribe scroll (for priests) and maybe something else. Who knows, the sky is the limit with scripting

    Aquadrizzt
  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,004
    @Grammarsalad‌ , thank you for the explanation. Guess I finally have to learn how to code dialogue... Oh well. I plan on using the invisible creature trick for other stuff too (i.e., I might use it for granting Mage kits). Now that I've been forced to make use of it, I might as well embrace its power.

    I have devised a very elegant solution for Armored Casting; now I just need opinions on what penalties (if any) should be applied when wearing armor.

    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,556
    edited December 2014
    It's actually surprisingly easy! You create your blah.d file, compile it in your tp2, then it is added as blah.dlg. like anything, including your tp2, you have to get used to the syntax, but you get the hang of it quickly. Promise! :)

    Edit: let me describe briefly the above code (second one)

    IF sets the conditions which, if they come out true, get executed. A number if conditions can be put one after the other. If so, an "and" is presumed, meaning that all conditions must be satisfied to execute. You can also put an "or" meaning that only a single condition needs to be met to execute.

    See here:

    http://gibberlings3.net/iesdp/scripting/triggers/index.htm

    THEN
    This describes what happens if the conditions are met. (Look under "actions" at the link).
    END
    Ends the if/then process, but it will keep repeating until you end it somehow (like with destroyself())

    This is a basic .baf. You would compile it in your tp2 and the game well read it as a bcs(or bsc, or something*). This week is busy with the holidays, but I'll try to create an example giving 1st level selections to sorcerers this weekend...

    Next on the agenda: learn ADD_SPELL

    edit2: * .d to .dlg works similarly

    Edit 3: response ##### sets the probability of the following action occurring. So response #100 happens 100% of the time. You can have multiple possible actions each with some chance to happen. Eg if I wanted a chance to fail at craft potion, I might say do #90 to create potion, #5 nothing happens, and #5 blows up...I think(maybe not, but I think so) you can do multiple commands that are intelligence based...The possibilities!

    Post edited by Grammarsalad on
  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 1,004
    @Grammarsalad‌ , I really appreciate the help and I should be able to get started on that now.

    In other news, here is the shiny new Magus kit description.

    MAGUS

    Advantages
    - Hit Die: d8
    - May cast arcane spells.
    - Gains access to a unique set of Magus Arcana (as spells) . Arcana modify a Magus' melee attacks and last for 1 turn.
    - Can specialize (++) in any melee weapon.
    - Can receive the Attack per Round bonus from specialization (as Warriors).
    - Can wear any armor, including Robes.
    - Can cast spells while wearing light armor (leather, studded leather and hide).
    -- (5th) Can cast spells while wearing medium armor (chain and scale).
    -- (15th) Can cast spells while wearing heavy armor (splint and plate).

    Disadvantages
    - Does not gain Bloodline bonus spells.
    - Has a permanent -2 penalty to casting speed.
    - May cast one fewer spell per level per day.
    - May not summon a Familiar.

    Arcana
    - (1st) Magic Weapon: You gain a +2 bonus to attack and damage with melee weapons.
    - (2nd) Defending Weapon: You gain +1 Armor Class for 5 turns whenever you attack with a melee weapon.
    - (3rd) Elemental Weapon: Your melee attacks deal +d6 elemental (acid, fire, cold, electric) damage.
    - (4th) Quickened Weapon: You have +1 Attack per Round.
    - (5th) Keen Weapon: You gain +10% chance to critically hit.
    - (6th) Grandmaster's Weapon: You are treated as having grandmastery in melee weapons.
    - (7th) Disruptive Weapon: Your melee attacks inflict a stacking 10% spell failure chance for 5 rounds.
    - (8th) Nullifying Weapon: Your melee attacks dispel magic on hit (save vs. spell -2 to prevent).
    - (9th) Vorpal Weapon: For 1 turn, your melee attacks have a 10% chance of killing a target instantly (save vs. death -2 to negate).


    I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the Arcana. If I were to discard them, I would probably either reduce the casting speed penalty to -1 or remove the spells per day reduction. Thoughts on the balance?

    KamigoroshiGrammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,556
    The arcana abilities are pretty cool. They might work better as special abilities, maybe. They seem spell-like, but not like spells, if that makes sense.

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