How to bypass True Sight?

Blackraven

Hello everyone, I'm having a blast with my current Avenger especially now that she has Improved Invisibility amongst her spells. I'm a bit worried though that from late BG1, early BG2 onward, the spell may lose much of its usefulness, because mages and priests will start casting true sight / true seeing all the time. Unlike wizards, Avengers can't cast Spell Immunity: Divination.

Does anyone know if there's a way for Avengers to make good use of Improved Invisibility once they start facing priests who can cast level 5 spells and mages who can cast level 6 spells)?

The Cloak of Non-Detection is wearable by pretty much all characters (not sure about Wizard Slayer), including Avengers, but iirc True Sight/Seeing bypasses the cloak's Non-Detection effect and dispels al types of invisibility and other illusions (except for Thieves' and Rangers' non-magical stealth).

Am I right? Does anyone know if there are any other tricks, spells, items that would serve my Avenger?

jacobtan

What do you do with the invisibility? If it's for scouting, you could consider Farsight with summons

Blackraven

jacobtan said:

What do you do with the invisibility? If it's for scouting, you could consider Farsight with summons

Scouting is one thing, and I like your strategy there (will probably use it - thanks!), but I was mainly referring to being untargetable for enemy spellcasters. At this point in my game (mid BG1) Improved Invisibility is a great boon for my Avenger because foes like Bassilus, Corsone, probably Silke (haven't tackled her yet), etc can't touch me except through physical attacks while I can sling all kinds of nasty spells their way. Later in the game, more advanced mages will dispel the improved invisibility with True Sight.
As a mage I can anticipate by casting SI: Divination, and as stealthed rogue with the cloak of non-detection I'll be fine as well. I'd like for my Avenger to have some kind of trick that allows her to keep on benefitting from improved invisibility in battle even against advanced foes that cast (almost without exception) True Sight/Seeing (or even Oracle).

elminster

Not sure if there really is much you can do other than waiting the spell out (lasts 1 turn). Even then waiting isn't guaranteed to work either (if for instance they are scripted to cast the spell despite it not being in their spell book).

jacobtan

@Blackraven‌ Might be a little tough. Best I can think of is:

1. Use Farsight with summons to scout the area
2. Wait for the spells to end like what @elminster‌ said
3. If you are not playing solo, use another character who can hide himself and stay untargetable to draw the attention of enemies, and you hide behind spamming quality summons like Fire Elementals
4. At high levels, always keep a Shield of the Archons up if you're expecting trouble

Blackraven

Thanks @elminster and @jacobtan. One turn is doable (the Avenger can hide and distract with summons or prevent castings of True Sight with Insect Plagues). In encounters with mages who have various True Sights it might still be difficult making optimal use of Improved Invisibility though.
The good thing is a single class druid with high WIS gets a lot of spells So I can memorize it a lots, and Shield of the Archons is of course pretty great as well. Thanks again!

jacobtan

@Blackraven‌ Druids reach max spell progression at L25 iirc. This is 5m experience, meaning you have 3m XP to play with if you want to dual. It's also an option ^_^

Blackraven

jacobtan said:

@Blackraven‌ Druids reach max spell progression at L25 iirc. This is 5m experience, meaning you have 3m XP to play with if you want to dual. It's also an option ^_^

Hmmmm my current character is a Half-Elf, so no dualling. But I'll keep it in mind for subsequent playthroughs. Wouldn't it be nicer to level a fighter into a druid rather than the other way around? E.g. at level 9 for full fighter hitdice? (The Druid levels up pretty fast to level 10.)

jacobtan

@Blackraven‌

Theoretically, 3m XP allows you to reach L20 as a fighter, but unless you're playing with a party that can support you, and you're willing to sit around and do some XP farming, it's not very feasible.

Assuming you're playing solo (or with a party but minimum use of other NPCs), you can go F7/DX or F13/DX, using the Berserker kit (Kensai class forbids armor and Wizard Slayer Kit.. meh). But you will lose the Avenger kit.

If you're going the reverse... it's probably going to be really tough and the build will lack synergy, unless you're playing with an imported character of max XP such as a D(Totemic)20/FX or if you have a way to farm XP indefinitely.

jacobtan

@Blackraven‌

If you are planning a dual-classed build, these are some breakpoints to think about:

Dual at F7 - you get +1/2 attacks per round
Dual at F9 - you get full Fighter HD (actually not so much. Since fighter hit dice is d10 and druid hit dice is d8, and fighters get +2HP more per level assuming 18 Con, all you get for F9 is a mere... 8HP. Not worth the effort IMO)
Dual at F13 - you get another +1/2 attacks per round

Dual-classing at other levels are rarer but may be relevant depending on how you build your party. I build my Kensai/Mage with the intention of being powerful for Ascension, so I'm willing to dual at F17/M25, since mages stop receiving HLAs after M25. But of course, I have to squat for very long, which frankly just means I'm running another NPC as if he/she is my PC

Blackraven

@jacobtan, yes those three levels are the usual dual moments for a fighter class. I hope the downtime for your kensage won't bother you too much. I understand your desire to be as strong as possible by the end of the game, but I normally try to have characters who are fairly strong throughout the entire trilogy.

Btw, good to have you on these forums, you've been giving some very good input in various threads. I for one appreciate it a lot

jacobtan

@Blackraven‌

Not an issue with the downtime. I usually play with imported characters, or have planned out strategies to do extensive XP farming and to mitigate the impact of late dual-classing. It can be excruciatingly boring, but I'm a person who will reload 15-30 minutes in Might and Magic 4/5 just to get the most valuable random drop from one single monster... out of the hundreds in the game, ad nauseum.

And thanks for the kind words ^_^

Blackraven

jacobtan said:

@Blackraven‌

Not an issue with the downtime. I usually play with imported characters, or have planned out strategies to do extensive XP farming and to mitigate the impact of late dual-classing. It can be excruciatingly boring, but I'm a person who will reload 15-30 minutes in Might and Magic 4/5 just to get the most valuable random drop from one single monster... out of the hundreds in the game, ad nauseum.

And thanks for the kind words ^_^

Ok, I see you're a patient man.
You're welsome btw