Some things have changed in EE?

Sojourner

I haven't played BG1 for about a year now. I could swear I was playing EE before, but maybe not ... I seem to be missing some things?

First, I used to get the sidebar when in party mode where the party was listed down the right side during battle and when just walking around. I could swear I did. But it only shows up now in one of the examination modes - like in inventory or what have you. It never shows up in live mode, which is a problem for me because I have trouble seeing the individual party members - especially if they're clumped up. This is making it very difficult for me to change focus to a particular party member during battle. I could easily select the party member I wanted by clicking on the sidebar in live mode. Am I hallucinating ever having had that sidebar in live mode? Or is there something wrong with my game? Or did they just take it out in EE? I can only switch between party members now by finding them on the screen and trying to guess who is who. It usually takes several clicks before I can find the one I am looking for.

Second, I ALWAYS fail at stealing now. No matter what I do, I can't open a locked chest without getting caught. I have even saved and retried multiple times - I fail every single time and get caught by the guards. Even with Alora. I can put her in hide-in-shadows mode but she still gets caught. I am positive that I never used Algernon's cloak because I've never had it. My thieves have never had "charm person". So I have no idea what I am doing differently, but I cannot get anything out of a locked chest anymore if there is anybody anywhere near the chest - not even in the same room as the thief sometimes, like the desk in the healer's hut in Candlekeep. Or the one behind the guy with the pantaloons. I know I've gotten that opened before and successfully scarpered with the contents. There was some way to grab the contents and run away before the guards appeared, and if you came back later, they weren't still looking for you as long as they hadn't found you before you scurried off. Now, when they see me next time, they immediately turn red and demand buckets o'cash, even 3 or 4 days later. What could I be doing wrong?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Skaffen

Not sure if I understood your sidebar issue correctly but have you pressed U and H keys? Is there a small grey stub at the bottom of the screen? Please press those buttons and see if that helps you...

Sojourner

Yes, there was a tiny button at the bottom right of the screen. I have my sidebar back now! That was so weird! Thanks for that!

Now if I can just get the locked chest thing straightened out ...

sarevok57

@Sojourner if you want to steal goodies from chests when there is people around, knock them out unconscious and you can get away no sweat, and if for some reason that cant work, haste your character before you steal, open the chest, pause quickly, steal the stuff, and run like stick out of there, in bgee they did make it a little harder to steal, but you can still get away with it from, knocking people unconscious or just using the boots of speed/hasting to run out of there before the guards can talk to you

sarevok57

* or once you steal, you can stealth / turn invisible out of there as well

OurQuestIsVain

If you don't care about using cheese to steal you may not care about outright cheating. You can quicksave right after looting a chest before the guards appear then quickload and the guards will never come. It's kind of lame but if you don't like cheating you can unlock all the chests then loot them with a cleric that can cast sanctuary which is like invisibility except it allows you to open doors and loot chests and such without it dispelling.

Sojourner

What is using cheese to steal???

Sojourner

@sarevok57 - I tried stealthing after stealing and while I can get out of the room and even out of the inn after that, the very next time I come back, the guards are still there waiting for me - even though I never saw them the first time. Even 3 or 4 days later!

This is not how I remember it working before ... I'm not sure if that's just how it works now (eg you ALWAYS get caught, which would suck big time because there is so much stuff in locked chests you just can't get any other way) or if there is something wrong with my game. I'd leave the chests but for the special items ...

sarevok57

well I do know that the guards come a little more often than they used to, but im still capable of stealing almost everything in the game and getting away with it ( the friendly arm in might be a tad harder and some stores in bg the city) but other than that, I can grab all the goodies in time without getting caught, try using the sanctuary technique @OurQuestIsVain was talking about

sarevok57

* of it you just want to flat out "cheat" just Crlt+Shift Y the guards ( if you have the cheat console enabled)

Twani

The guards always stayed there in Tutu, I know. I think they did in BG1. They're quite persistant.

Still, a good enough stealth skill, and you never get caught. Save for that darn 1% chance...

OurQuestIsVain

Sojourner said:

What is using cheese to steal???

When I say "using cheese" I mean using a technique that is cheesy. I'm sorry, it is just slang I picked up on the interwebs.

Sojourner

I have checked on the pre 1.2 patch of BG:EE and I can still give the guards the slip there if I wait long enough - I think it only takes 8 hours but I waited 10 to be sure. This is in the FAI btw.

I have no cleric so sanctuary is no help, plus I never had to use it before. Branwen is still stone.

It's not that they come that is the problem, its that you can't wait them out any more, apparently. I will try that scenario again but at this point I am unwilling to load v1.2 over my old game so that'll have to wait until I have access to the other computer where 1.2 currently resides. Or has it been decided that the guards will no longer lose interest after awhile?

This is not the expected behavior as far as I know (that the guards will never lose interest in a bit of petty theft). There are many items you can't get any other way except to "steal" them from a locked chest, else I would avoid thieving altogether. I never pickpocket, and there are at least a few items I have always done without because of that. I hate to think everything in a locked chest in a room with an occupant is now also off-limits.

Is it the case that the expected behavior now is that the guards will NEVER lose interest?

@OurQuestIsVain - I am still not sure what technique to avoid the guards you thought was "cheesy" - can you elaborate?

I have also noticed that Alara fails at hide in the shadows a LOT now. Has that also been made more difficult? She is a L4 thief. She seldom fails at that pre-1.2 patch. At least in the FAI.

Sojourner

NM

elminster

One of the listed changes in 1.2 is "Alerted guards will despawn correctly" so what you are experiencing could be related to that. They should be gone in 2 days (which in this case could be as much as 6 full rests I'm not certain).

elminster

Also just because someone isn't facing a chest that doesn't mean they don't "see" you opening it (game wise). The two examples you listed (the pantaloon guy and the infirmary in candlekeep) both are cases where potentially you are in line of sight of someone (or they move into your line of sight) when you try to open the case. The infirmary has always been a rather finicky situation with regard to stealing from it (but its pretty easy to avoid the guard thanks to that table).

Sojourner

I understand that you can be "seen" if they are in the same room - that's not the issue. The issue is that hiding in the shadows and leaving, then waiting for the guards to forget about you doesn't seem to work in 1.2 anymore.

All I can say is that in my pre-1.2 patch version I have no trouble avoiding the guards. That works as it always has - I can unlock the chest, open it and grab the item, then hide in the shadows and walk past the guards. If I wait 8 to 10 hours and come back they don't attack me.

In the 1.2 patch, they never seem to go away. I have gone as long as 4 days and they are still waiting for me. I will try to double check that tomorrow, or as soon as I can get on the other computer and try to run through the scenario very methodically to make sure I don't make a mistake. But right now I am getting caught 100% of the time there, while I can avoid getting caught 100% of the time (with Alora @ L4) in the pre-1.2 patch version.