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The Equalizer

AristilliusAristillius Member Posts: 873
in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
Okay, on discussions about powerful builds and weapons noone seems to mention the equalizer. What are you guys' opinion of it? I find it an interesting weapon, and something you just cant wait to complete after hauling around that gem all over Amn/the underdark.

Is it among the most powerful weapons in the game?
Failing that, is it one of the most powerful longswords in SoA? Maybe tied with Daystar?
Are there enough enemies that are chaotic evil? (And thereby suceptible to the attacks?)

Eager to hear your input :)

Link here:
http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/The_Equalizer
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Comments

  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    Good question. To me the Equalizer is a bit underwhelming if you take into account what it takes to acquire it, and when most players acquire it. In terms of damage output it's one of the better weapons in SoA, but not extraordinarily so if you compare it to weapons such Celestial Fury, Flail of Ages, Crom Faeyr, Staff of the Ram +4 or Carsomyr.

    For a longsword the damage is very good, but you'll still use the Dragon Slayer against Dragons (for its double damage against dragons and its protection from Fear), and probably Daystar against Undead (double damage plus a free Sunray), so it's not the ultimate longsword in SoA IMO. If you save most sidequests you could do in Chapter 2 for Chapter 6, then you'll have a lot of use for it, but if in Chapter 6 you only need to fight Bodhi, its use is pretty limited.

    The Equalizer's immunities to charm and confusion are nice, but as the game progresses these effects become less common, and your saving throws increasingly better. It's my impression that high level enemy mages generally don't bother with spells like Confusion, Chaos, or Domination, but it will alwyas be useful against Umber Hulks (that cast confusion) and Vampires (who cast Domination).

  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    @Jacobtan, good post! Don't know whether to click Insightful or Agree (for the final paragraph).
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Its a cool concept but unless you know your opponents specific alignment (which is not something you can find with Know Alignment) its unreliable.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    I like that in vanilla the THAC0 and Damage bonus applied on both hands when dual-wileding :)
    Really, Haer'Dalis had Kundane+2 and The Equalizer for a while and he wasn't bad with them.
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    edited April 2014
    CrevsDaak said:

    I like that in vanilla the THAC0 and Damage bonus applied on both hands when dual-wileding :)
    Really, Haer'Dalis had Kundane+2 and The Equalizer for a while and he wasn't bad with them.

    My personal preference on Equalizer is similar.

    I don't like it in a main hand for the main fighters because of its unreliability, and if it is in the main hand, the "applied to both hands" bonus will only apply to that one more attack from the off-hand (no chance of spamming this bonus for main hand attacks). As a main hand weapon for support fighters (e.g. Haer'Dalis), it is fine, though I prefer something more substantial like Angurvadal +5 or Answerer +4. Then again, I'm not fond of long swords for my main fighters, so there is no competition for these weapons.

    As an off-hand weapon, it is likely to be more relevant to support fighters again. If it doesn't hit well, there is no big loss, but if it hits well, you stand to gain. It still won't be a good enough off-hand weapon for the main fighters unless there are no more APR weapons available for use, and there are no better choices.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    jacobtan said:

    CrevsDaak said:

    I like that in vanilla the THAC0 and Damage bonus applied on both hands when dual-wileding :)
    Really, Haer'Dalis had Kundane+2 and The Equalizer for a while and he wasn't bad with them.

    My personal preference on Equalizer is similar.

    I don't like it in a main hand for the main fighters because of its unreliability, and if it is in the main hand, the "applied to both hands" bonus will only apply to that one more attack from the off-hand (no chance of spamming this bonus for main hand attacks). As a main hand weapon for support fighters (e.g. Haer'Dalis), it is fine, though I prefer something more substantial like Angurvadal +5 or Answerer +4.
    I used it in his main-hand and Belm+2 (sorry, made a mistake before) in his off-hand, Immunity to Charm & Confusion is always cool, the extra damage is few, but anyway...

    I built it with my Fighter in my last run, I just used it for the Confusion & Charm immunity by having it in my weapon slots so I could switch hit before the Charm/Confusion spell hits. I also used Peridian Dragonslayer for the Fear Immunity (which got replaced by Blackrazor later), the Burning Earth and Daystar against Undead and to hit Demiliches.
  • ZaknafeinBaenreZaknafeinBaenre Member Posts: 349
    Such a pain in the ass to make, an overly complicated sword to understand and use effectively, and not even worth the $5,000 GP needed to forge it. That's my 2 cents. For the work, this sword should've come with some major bonuses. Crom Faeyr gives 25 strength. Equalizer should've given like 24 dexterity or something cool like that.
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,307
    I'm with @ZaknafeinBaere… Equalizer and Wave were so underwhelming. At least with CromF & Gesen you get weapons you can use for the rest of the game.
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    I love The Wave.
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    jackjack said:

    I love The Wave.

    I like the story of the weapon, though I don't use it because it doesn't survive a power comparison with other weapons. I'll still make the weapon and keep it around for fun.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited April 2014
    jacobtan said:

    jackjack said:

    I love The Wave.

    I like the story of the weapon, though I don't use it because it doesn't survive a power comparison with other weapons. I'll still make the weapon and keep it around for fun.
    Other than Carsomyr and FoA what weapons are more powerful than the wave in SoA?

    That's a +4 weapon with a 15% chance to deal an additional 15 damage. It's the second best two handed weapon in SoA behind Carsomyr. So if you aren't playing a paladin and still want to wield a two handed weapon, The wave would be your best option.
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    edited April 2014
    @SionIV‌

    I'm not keen to go further about Wave on this thread since it specifically mentions the Equalizer.

    But if we're going to discuss the merits of Wave, do open a new thread and quote figures and supporting argumentation. Objective claims are meaningless if they cannot be backed up with relevant evidence.

    I will add that Wave is indeed a reasonably good two-handed weapon in SoA, so I agreed with your previous post, albeit with some caveats.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited April 2014
    Edit: Removed as to not cause the thread to go further off topic.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    SionIV said:

    elminster said:

    The worst part about the Equalizer is that I always see that pommel in Irenicus's dungeon and I'm like "I gotta take this" even though I know I'll never use the Equalizer!

    And i end up spending gold to identify it, every single game.
    That's not too bad, you can sell it for 225 GP, and you can ID it for 100, so you gain 125 GP, not a bad deal.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited April 2014
    elminster said:

    If Halberds did slashing damage I'd like them more from a mechanical standpoint (RP wise they look cool though).

    As for The Wave well I'm not much of a math person but I'll wing it.

    1d10+4 damage = 5-14 damage (average of 9.5 damage)

    If there is a 15% chance of doing 15 damage then I assume that on any given attack the average extra damage dealt would be 2.25.

    So that is what...11.75 damage?

    Comparatively the Impaler (spear) does 14-19 piercing damage, an average of 16.5 damage, and you can actually get it before you enter the underdark. You can't hit certain enemies with it but it probably works on 95% of enemies.

    Personally just speaking for non-Watcher's Keep, non-ToB two-handed weapons I'd probably take the Carsomyr, the Impaler, Spear of Withering, or Soul Reaver over the Wave.

    Using the Impaler to prove damage is a silly thing to do as it's a niche weapon and +3.

    The impaler is a +3 weapon. The only reason people keep taking it into damage arguments is the +10. It really isn't that good of a weapon, and it's not worth going grand master into spears while it's a great choice for halberds.

    Carsomyr is paladin only.

    Spear of Withering is worse than Wave in pretty much every way.

    Soul Reaver deals the same damage you're just trading a little bit of Thac0 (which you won't need at this point of the game) against 15% chance to deal 15 damage and instant death to efreeti, salamanders and fire elementals. The one good thing for the Soul reaver is that it's slashing damage.

    Would like to mention that the Spear category in BG is sadly lacking. While you can pick up an amazing Halberd +3 (+1 STR) right from outside of Irenicus dungeon, replace it with the Wave once you get to that point of the game and then replace the wave with the Ravager which is pretty much one if not the best weapon in the game.

    The wave is a great weapon and the Halberd proficiency is really good in BG2. The wave is an important weapon for a Halberd user as it's the weapon to use between the Harmonium Halberd and Ravager.

    Harmonium Halberd +3 (Chapter 2, out of Irenicus Dungeon)
    The wave +4 (Chapter 6)
    Ravager +4/+6 (ToB)

    This will be the last post of mine, as not to derail thread.

    [Edited] : The Impaler is +3, was thinking about another spear.
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    @CrevsDaak‌ I go off to recruit an NPC mage like Jan/Aerie whom I won't use in my regular party, get them to memorise stacks of Identify, identify the items, then kick them without any adventuring, so cost is 0.

    @elminster‌ I heartily agree with the content you removed. When we get down to the numbers, fact starts to get separated from fiction :)
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    jacobtan said:

    @CrevsDaak‌ I go off to recruit an NPC mage like Jan/Aerie whom I won't use in my regular party, get them to memorise stacks of Identify, identify the items, then kick them without any adventuring, so cost is 0.

    Yeah, I know, I always pick Aerie for the Robe she has, to make her carry and Identify stuff :D
    Plus I tend to CRTL+J Aerie in one of the cages where the animals are :/ but that isn't related.
  • ZaknafeinBaenreZaknafeinBaenre Member Posts: 349
    I actually like Dragon's Breath better than Wave, and you just pick that one up. For the cost of construction and time needed to gather the pieces and then being unable to put them together until chapter 6, Wave should be heads and shoulders above Dragon's Breath.

    And the reason I like Dragon's Breath better is because it gives such a varied array of damage that enemies always take some damage, and it disrupts mages better, etc.

    Wave is great to have if you have a Halberd fighter so you can switch to it when you come across those elementals and salamanders, but otherwise I'm rolling with Dragon's Breath.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    ZaknafeinBaenre said:

    I actually like Dragon's Breath better than Wave, and you just pick that one up. For the cost of construction and time needed to gather the pieces and then being unable to put them together until chapter 6, Wave should be heads and shoulders above Dragon's Breath.

    And the reason I like Dragon's Breath better is because it gives such a varied array of damage that enemies always take some damage, and it disrupts mages better, etc.

    Wave is great to have if you have a Halberd fighter so you can switch to it when you come across those elementals and salamanders, but otherwise I'm rolling with Dragon's Breath.

    There's another thread for discussions on the wave.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited April 2014
    ZaknafeinBaenre said:

    I actually like Dragon's Breath better than Wave, and you just pick that one up. For the cost of construction and time needed to gather the pieces and then being unable to put them together until chapter 6, Wave should be heads and shoulders above Dragon's Breath.

    And the reason I like Dragon's Breath better is because it gives such a varied array of damage that enemies always take some damage, and it disrupts mages better, etc.

    Wave is great to have if you have a Halberd fighter so you can switch to it when you come across those elementals and salamanders, but otherwise I'm rolling with Dragon's Breath.

    We got a thread for the Wave now. (http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/31442/the-wave-halberd#latest)

    Would like to point out that many people forget that the Dragon's breath isn't a +4 with +5 elemental damage on top, it doesn't get the +4 damage at all.

    +4 Thac0
    1d10 Damage

    +1 Cold
    +1 Fire
    +1 Electrical
    +1 Acid
    +1 Poison

    So it actually deals less damage than most other +4 weapons. You only need one type of elemental damage to break through a mages protection, not 5 of them. And if you end up fighting against someone that is immune to 2 of your elemental damages, you'll deal less damage than a normal +3 halberd.
  • ZaknafeinBaenreZaknafeinBaenre Member Posts: 349
    SionIV said:

    jacobtan said:

    jackjack said:

    I love The Wave.

    I like the story of the weapon, though I don't use it because it doesn't survive a power comparison with other weapons. I'll still make the weapon and keep it around for fun.
    Other than Carsomyr and FoA what weapons are more powerful than the wave in SoA?

    That's a +4 weapon with a 15% chance to deal an additional 15 damage. It's the second best two handed weapon in SoA behind Carsomyr. So if you aren't playing a paladin and still want to wield a two handed weapon, The wave would be your best option.
    I'm sure there are 10 other threads for discussions on the wave. I was responding to this and another post in this thread.
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    What they're saying is that we specifically started another thread about it so as not to further derail this one.
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