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Confused about HP bonus/level with Con

I'm confused about something.

This topic:

Seems to suggest that using Buckley's Buckler on level-up for the purposes of raising constitution for the HP/Level Bonus won't give improved hit points. However, this page:'s_Gate:_Races_and_Stats#Constitution

States that using Buckley's Buckler on say, Ajantis (who has a con of 16) would make his con 17, and therefore give him a +3 bonus to HP on level-up. The same would apply to Kivan, going from 14 -> 15 (getting +1 instead of no bonus) and Branwen, going from 15 -> 16 (getting +2 instead of +1). It would also serve that using a potion of fortitude on level-up carries astronomical bonuses, when coupled with Buckley's Buckler for fighters.

Unless my understanding of the bonuses provided by the shield/potion is wrong (and the bonus doesn't factor into level-up), or unless my understanding of how constitution provides bonuses on level-up is wrong, it would seem the above topic is incorrect in some of the statements provided.

Could someone please clarify? Thanks


  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I thought that level-up just took your natural stat, not counting potion or item bonuses, otherwise you could get amazing level-ups by chugging potions. I don't know though.

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    The magic item doesn't grant a permanent bonus, its only good as long as you're using it. So a 5th level fighter with a 15 const would get five extra hit points only when using the shield.

  • DimDim Member Posts: 2
    ^Though, technically speaking I'm using it when I hit the "Level Up" button...

    To clarify, you mean that only permanently altering bonuses, such as those provided by tomes, can change the bonus gain per level provided by Constitution?

    Unless you mean to say that Constitution in general doesn't alter your GAIN per level - only your total HP at any one time. In which case, rushing to get the +CON tome early on is *entirely* pointless long-term anyway?

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    What you said last is true. As your const fluctuates, so will your hit points. Well, assuming your modifier is changed. Hit points aren't "permanent".
    And remember that modifier isn't the same for every class. For Warriors, it is +1 per point above 14. For non-warriors it maxes out at +2. So there is little incentive for your thief to go from a 16 to a 17!

  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968
    Dim said:

    Unless you mean to say that Constitution in general doesn't alter your GAIN per level - only your total HP at any one time. In which case, rushing to get the +CON tome early on is *entirely* pointless long-term anyway?

    Your Constitution does affect your hit points per level up but only because of your permanent stat, not the temporary ones you gain from an item. And since the tome adjusts your permanent stat, it is worth getting for the long-term.

  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    Constitution affect your HP in general, don't think about level up.

    You have a level 9 Fighter with 10 Con with max roll, he is going to have 90 HP. Now makes him drink a Potion of Fortitude which increase his Constitution to 18 during a few hours and he is going to have 90 + 9X4 = 126 HP. Then you use the Tome of Constitution to increase his Constitution to 19 and he is going to have 135 HP (90 + 9X5).

    After that you rest, the effects of the potion disapears but the Tome is still used, so now you have 11 Constitution along with 90 HP (9d10 + 0).

    And that's it, 200% sure about that.

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    edited April 2014
    Let's look at a level 5 fighter who uses the constitution tome or another item.

    10 constitution = 50 health.
    11 constitution = 50 health
    12 constitution = 50 health
    13 constitution = 50 health
    14 constitution = 50 health
    15 constitution = 55 health
    16 constitution = 60 health
    17 constitution = 65 health
    18 constitution = 70 health
    19 constitution = 75 health
    20 constitution = 75 health
    21 constitution = 80 health
    22 constitution = 80 health

    It doesn't matter when he uses the tome, he's going to get the correct bonus. So you don't have to hurry to get the tome. Let's look at a level 7 fighter.

    10 constitution = 70 health.
    11 constitution = 70 health
    12 constitution = 70 health
    13 constitution = 70 health
    14 constitution = 70 health
    15 constitution = 77 health
    16 constitution = 84 health
    17 constitution = 91 health
    18 constitution = 98 health
    19 constitution = 105 health
    20 constitution = 105 health
    21 constitution = 112 health
    22 constitution = 112 health

    So a level 5 fighter that has 13 constitution and uses the tome gets nothing.

    But if a fighter has 15-18 constitution he'll get +1 health for each level he has. So the level 5 fighter will get +5 health when he uses the tome to get from 18 to 19 CON. While the level 7 fighter will get +7 health when he does the same.

    When you use equipment or potions that boosts your constitution score, it's going to work the same way with the exception that it's not permanent and when you remove the equipment or lose the effect from the potion you'll also lose the bonus health.

    A level 8 fighter with 10 constitution.

    Base HP from class : 80
    HP from constitution : 0

    A level 8 fighter with 10 constitution that uses the potion of fortitude.

    Base HP from class : 80
    HP from constitution : +4/level = 4*8 = 32 HP

    So he'll have 80 (Base) + 32 (+4/CON) = 112 health. He gains 32 health from using that potion. But he'll also lose the same amount of health when it runs out.

    You're not going to get anymore health from using constitution items/potions when you level up, as it's only going for the 'permanent' constitution your character have. So in other words unless you're using a Tome, it's not going to work.

    And remember that the fighter/paladin/ranger are the only classes that get more than +2 health from constitution. So for every other class the maximum health you'll get is from 16 constitution and anything above that will give you nothing except saving throws if you're a shorty.

  • karnor00karnor00 Member Posts: 679
    One thing to bear in mind is that the shorty save bonuses are only recalculated every level up. So you can put on the buckler just before levelling up, and take it off afterwards and your shorty saves will remain at the higher con level.

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