Role playing Baldur's gate with 4 people while drinking...(SPOILERS)
Delicious_Cyan
Member Posts: 3
4 Australians playing BG:EE for the first time ever. Laughing ourselves stupid and making terrible jokes.
I cut our adventures into this short film, complete with subtitles for some parts and i figured that if anyone can get a laugh out of this, its you guys.
Nevermind the childish racism at the start, if you stick with it there is tonnes of great moments.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=IInCEYdh6xM
Any of you guys play BG like this? Think we should do a sequel?
I cut our adventures into this short film, complete with subtitles for some parts and i figured that if anyone can get a laugh out of this, its you guys.
Nevermind the childish racism at the start, if you stick with it there is tonnes of great moments.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=IInCEYdh6xM
Any of you guys play BG like this? Think we should do a sequel?
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Comments
First, let me say, I laughed. A lot. I laughed kind of despite myself. You guys have such drunken happiness and glee at playing Baldur's Gate badly, just to see what happens, that you produce an infectious spirit of joy and laughter. I can relate, to an extent.
You do remind me of the bandit who says "Nyehehe, so I kicked him in the head 'til he was dead! Nyahhaha!" That's one of the bandit npc's standard voice exclamations. If you haven't heard it yet, you should soon. And I hope you see the mirror that he is holding up before you kill him.
Second, my main concern is the racism, even more than the violence, which I think you consider to be cartoon-like, and therefore harmless fun.
Even though you try to give a disclaimer in order to get your viewers into the spirit of fun that is intended, the offensive parts are *horribly* offensive. I can't just let all that go without saying something. The world has spent the past two centuries trying to undo all the evil that has been done by exactly what you have posted.
Are you guys in the armed services, by any chance? Because the way you talk to each other when you're alone with like kind and have no need to censor yourselves reminds me of typical barracks, or locker room behavior, among male soldiers or athletes who don't know any better. (And I hope that that statement doesn't offend good soldiers and athletes who neither condone nor participate in such behavior.)
I wonder what my good Asian friend @Heindrich might have to say about this video? Your choice of "Chopsticks" for a character name, and your mockery of the Asian trying to speak English, using sounds that don't exist in his native language, are exactly the kind of thing people of conscience have been trying to fight for quite a long time now.
The intention of humor does not give one carte blanche to suspend all conscience. That's how bullying and then pure evil starts. The minority "victim" is almost forced to clench his teeth, fake a smile, and pretend like it's okay for you to use hate words and to parody his existence as though "it's all in good fun."
If he resists, the standard replies are "Stop being so thin-skinned and over-sensitive, we do this to everybody," "You (insert minority, probably with a derogatory name for it)'s are always trying to ruin everything for everyone else and to force everybody to give you special consideration," "Boy, you really don't have a sense of humor, do you? Geesh," "What a buzzkill," or else stony silence followed by complete social ostracization from your group ever after.
"Evil flourishes when good men do nothing." That's why I felt I had to post something about this. If nothing else, perhaps your well-intentioned, but, in my opinion, misguided video might start some kind of useful and healing dialogue.
I'm also wondering why you posted this, and are actually making efforts to promote it and to get more people to watch it. I can only assume that you are a group of college-aged boys, still learning about life and consequences of actions.
"People having fun playing Baldur's Gate badly while drunk" might be really fun and something I'd like to see more of. But if what you do when you get drunk is to start throwing around hate speech and laughing about it, then no.
BTW, I happen to be drunk as I post this essay. This is who I am when I'm drunk. If I were sober right now, I'd probably have just dismissed this whole thing and not given it a second thought. Both the best of me and the worst of me comes out when alcohol deactivates my conscious inhibitions. I sincerely hope that what I see in that video is the worst of you four, and not the best.
(Or at the very least, perhaps we can say, if you're going to make jokes about racism/sexism/homophobic/rape, at least make them funny. This wasn't funny. It was like being stuck with a bunch of thirteen year old boys who know nothing about life, which is one of my personal definitions of hell.
No offense to any thirteen year old boys on this forums, unless you're going to follow me around in a crowd telling me about which pokemon is your favorite and how all the others are gay. Then you can burn.)
I think at the start I accuse him of 'being a lame bastard and a poor' because of not buying the game and then I told him he was an idiot when he used Doom over me (I was playing a M/T Quasit and he was playing an 'evil' druid who kept on trying to use a two-handed sword I bought him to troll him).
If anyone is interested my character was named As'Ram Tar'Dym and his character was called Polizes, which according to him is the Greek for 'many Z' and the (his words not mine, I am not racist) 'nigger version of the word police'. He joined the session with his real name as nickname while I was Crevs the Flying Fuck. Call me childish or an idiot, but with the same friend I play Pokemon battles online, because it is funny and it was what we did when we were children (but we used GBAs and not computers with Wi-Fi and HDMI ports). Best thing is that he called me a n00b lots of times and I won the most of the times \o/ (he does not know english and the game is in english hahahaha).
Im going to do this again, because Belegarth was so constructive about his criticism. Im glad you laughed. That was the entire purpose of the video. Its good you were able to let go and have a chuckle, despite yourself, which means that not all was lost.
Ok, so first of all allow me to just straight up apologize.
I could give you every excuse under the sun. I can tell you (factually) that i speak 5 languages, reside in a foregin nation, am married to a foregin woman. I can tell you that i have african, asian, medditeranian and american indian relatives in my direct family. I can tell you the guy with the blue text is actually black and my cousin.
I can tell you all these things, but that doesnt make it right. In fact, it actually makes it worse - so again, i apologize.
I could have deleted those parts. You are looking at 5 hours of gameplay diluted into 16 mins, but i chose to keep the character creation process because it was a part of the whole experience. Deleting it wouldnt have made it unhappen. My racism was the result of alchohol and fully getting into the spirit of ridiculous stupidity. It was never intended as outright racism. Never once do i say "fuck asians". In fact, one of the languages i speak is Japanese. I studied it for 5 years. I was at the time, attempting to get a cheap laugh out of embodying an old, cheesy stereotype.
Not a justification - just an explanation for the why. TLDR - Im an idiot. Actually, one of us is in the armed forces, yes.
2 of us are also related, however this kind of behaviour is an Australian thing. More on that later....
It would be interesting to hear what he has to say.
Believe me when i say, nobody understands moreso than i, the difficulty in speaking a foregin language. I also understand the difficulty of being an outsider in a foregin nation.
I should know better, but alchohol and stupidity for the entertainment of the masses. Remember, im the clown doing the shit that nobody else should do, so that you can laugh at my behavior.
This is a cultural issue. Americans do not understand, and it leads to a lot of conflict, but allow me to explain. Australian culture is based entirely around "taking the piss". As in, making fun of, or insulting someone/something that you actually like. The more you hold it dear, the more you are required to make fun of it. I am not justifying this or condoning this - Its just how it is.
In Australia, someones social caliber is determined by how well they can insult their closest friends, and more than that, how well they can take these insults and mockery from their friends. An australian of the highest order will be one whom the worst and most personal insults bounce off effortlessly, and then are followed by whipcrack personal insults at his attackers. He will get bonus points for actually accepting the insult and then twisting it into a positive (i.e "i hear you fucked a dog last night" - "Yeah i did. I was really bored with your mother and wanted a change, but didnt want to stray too far from what i was used to".
After this exchange of insults, there would be a hearty chuckle, maybe some manly backslapping and all would be well.
Allow me to stress, im not trying to justify what ive done. Ive insulted you, and for that i apologize. Im just trying to help you understand the why. I have learned the hard way not to partake in such shenanigans outside of australia..... I am actually 29.
I posted it because i make lots of youtube videos. I have a bit of a reputation for inappropriate or stupid behavior. Im not a household name, but some of my videos have been quite popular.
You can see some of my most popular videos here:
Watching one or 2 will give you an idea of me, my personality and the kind of people who enjoy my videos.
I love to make people laugh. Im a clown. A lovable (this is debatable) fool who does the outrageous shit so that you dont have to. I even bake!
I posted the video here because you guys love Baldur's gate, and i figured who better to appreciate what is going on than you. I wanted to make you laugh, nothing more. It seems ive succeeded and failed in equal measure, and im not quite sure how i feel about it....
Please understand that my stupidity was intended as self mockery. Im big on self mockery. It was meant to show how fucking stupid i am, particularly under the influence. Please also understand that i am indeed, deeply sorry if i offended you.
You can just fuck right off.
Im sorry that i offended you, and im going to HOPE that your high and mighty attitude is a knee jerk reaction to being offended at what ive done.
It was never intended to be mean spirited, and im sorry you felt it was. I cant justify what ive done, but at least i wasnt overtly offensive like you are being right now.
I never said anything like "fuck asians, i hate asians, hanging around them is my definition of hell and i hope they all burn". I was attempting to embody an old, outdated and frankly, ridiculous stereotype. Nothing more. You however are showing true prejudice.
2 wrongs do not make a right.
Others have voiced their criticism in much more constructive ways.
No need to apologize - Humor is subjective. The world would be a really dull place if everyone thought the same shit was funny. Although im not sure what you expected.... It as pretty obvious it was going to be drunken nonsense.
You didnt need to call it drivel...... Just sayin...
Like you said you weren't deliberately making aggressive racist comments, you just said it in jest.. and as long as we can all see that the humor was intended to bash on those stereotypes and wasn't being said in a hateful and direct way, i believe that we can all come to the conclusion that all was done in good fun. No need to jump the gun and call racism on this one.
Oh and just to note, I'm not sure what the forum policy on swearing is here but you might want to watch out lest this thread become locked by a moderator
The most hypocritical Christians always sit on the front row at church, I should know, I go every week.
It's too bad that this is what this thread has become all about, but that is but one consequence of such things. It's never good to take oneself too seriously, but the trouble with racism is that it is quite literally the opposite of personal, but rather a string of sweeping generalizations, most often stereotypical and wildly inaccurate.
I have had jokes made about me by my friends in every single category listed, am I offended? Of course not, I just give it all right back. If one of my friends seriously had a problem that would hurt them (eg struggling with their sexuality) none of us would make a joke about it. It's not about offending people its about making light of this all too serious world that we live in.
But let's not conflate skin color with everything else you've listed.
To be blunt, anyone who thinks it's okay to say that to me is no friend of mine.
And as anyone here can tell you, I don't take myself very seriously at all
Your culture of friendly exchange of insults in Australia is interesting to me. My screen name is from a series of books by David Eddings called "The Belgariad". Two characters in those books, a sorceress named Polgara, and her sorcerer uncle Beldin, engage in the behavior you describe throughout the books. Taken literally, their dialogues would make it appear that they hate each other, yet they actually love each other very much - the insult exchanges are ironically how they express their love and mutual admiration.
Friends banter with each other in America, and in some private groups of friends, it probably starts to reach the level of intensity that you describe as "taking the piss" in Australia, but, in mixed polite company, even close friends would not go as far as you do. We also have a deep cultural concern with bullying during childhood and beyond. As a professional educator, I have extensive training in bullying prevention that has become very habitual and in-grained.
As for racism, and many other regional political issues in America, our nineteenth century Civil War issues, combined with our early twentieth century "Jim Crow" and the ensuing Civil Rights Eras, are still very much a part of our cultural and social consciousness. Race relations and divisions, and immigration policy, remain huge issues here, to this day.
In any event, thank you again for a productive dialogue. I have learned some things. I feel a little less guilty about laughing at the video. I'm still a little worried what my Asian friends might think of it, but you have gone the extra mile to explain and apologize for any offense or hurt feelings.
I think both sides make some valid points. I believe a lot of this has to do with cultural differences, as Cyan stated in his response.
To be fair, this sort of ribbing is common in the United States. We have been doing it among my very diverse group of friends for a long time, ever since the second grade where two of my buddies and I made a tree house, but I couldn't show up to help on the last day. So when I finally came there was a sign saying "No Greeks Allowed". It was fun. One of those friends is Jewish and can dunk a basketball... we named him the "Flying Kike", and he finds it hilarious. And the number of bobsled jokes we have made about our Jamaican friend... its unreal.
However, there is a difference when you are not among friends, which is what I think Twani was getting at (thought I agree her delivery was poor). I think your video was just a look inside jokes among your group of friends that does not necessarily translate when shown to a larger audience.
Some people could take offense, and cultural differences might have a part to play in that. We Americans are much more concerned about race relations that most, I have found. I can't even keep track the number of times I have heard people say some things during my travels in Europe that would make them ostracized from pretty much any group in the United States. I think it has to do with a struggle in diversity that is somewhat unique to the States and even more so in Canada (though Australia is fairly diverse as well).
I think my boy @BelgarathMTH made some good points about that. His perspective as an American is probably different than yours However, I do think there needs to be a distinction made between general over the top generalization (which is funny because it is stupid/ridiculous) and targeted bullying of individuals. You are correct in that you did not pick out anyone in a mean spirited way.
This sort of joking around happens all the time in comedy. For example I have seen the accent you used be part of numerous late-night programs making fun of Kim Jung Un on the Conan O'Brien show or Jay Leno. I have seen many standups from Chris Rock to Russel Peters that use similar things. Nobody seems to get on Russel Peters for using his hilarious faux Chinese accent. Again, it is so exaggerated and stupid that we should not assume people are trying to offend and be mean spirited.
As someone who was born to an immigrant family and will marry an Asian girl who is also 1st Generation American, I understand that there are some people who are unwelcoming of those different than they are. These people become more controversial in open societies that are diverse with a history of open immigration like the US. I actually spoke Greek before I spoke English, and still have a bit of an accent in some words. I have been made fun of for it in friendly ways when I was a kid. There was no ill-will there. However, I was working one summer at a diner for a family friend (insert Greeks owning diner jokes here) and most of the staff was Hispanic. At one table I misunderstood a customer's words and he stared daggers at me and said "no comprende? Typical". It was clear that he was a biiiiiit of a jerk. His demeanor and the way he presented himself was completely different from what we saw in that video .
If we are to properly challenge these types of people and marginalize their unsavory views, I think we should make sure that they are actually the real deal, cruel bigots that we are talking about. I didn't get that impression from your video tbh. So, while Belgar's words had some truth to them and his concern was very well meaning, I think we should also temper ourselves so that we don't create a "boy who cried wolf type situation" where people dismiss concerns over racism because they associate it with "buzzkills" or "killjoys" or whatever.
I think Belgarathmth made a good point about how even seemingly innocuous jokes can marginalize, and it seems like you took that well. The fact that you took criticism so well shows that you are probably not the type of person he thought you were. Overall I'd say it is just a matter of the right warrior fighting for the right cause but just in the wrong battle!
But it is never prejudice to point out racism. That's like claiming that if you don't tolerate bigotry (which is what you were showing, be it joking or not) your not truly tolerant.
I kept the conversation civil. I did not directly insult you or dismiss you, and I'm willing to accept that you're not really racist, you just make racist jokes with your friends (and those stereotypes may be 'ridiculous', but I'd hope you are aware they're still alive and prominent in this world, with many people still believing them). You, on the other hand, attacked me for calling you on your actions.
And I think that says far more about you then it does about me.
The concept of racism is interesting, and usually it is nationalist/right-wing sympethizers who often begin discussing the term - a crowd I dont want to fall into - just a disclaimer.
Anyway, often we begin thinking about racism as defined by whoever is felt prejudiced against, and often it is experienced by people who have historic grievances. For instance, "gooks" from the Vietnam war. This is hard for me, as a blonde-haired scandinavian to fully understand, because I have no historic grievance of, for instance, Aztek colonists enslaving vikings - neither is Norway's upper class dominated by people from Inidian (Aztek) descent.
Anyway, I love when English.speaking people (or others) try to imitate/parody Scandinavian/norwegian/swedish (cook) language or customs, and I think no scanidinavians would take offense, maunly from that reason. But I do not think any eastern (and in this you tube video's case, Japanese?) people would take offense, but rather take it as appreciation of japanese culture. That is all good natured is one point, but far more importantly, I think the *context* that is most who read this forum, understand that this is not an accurate description of Japanese culture, but more a celebration of some very specific and inflated aspects of it. It might be naive, but it is a hope at least
Anyway, I think it might be wrong to ask, for instance, for @Heindrich's approval for the video, it might be like asking a Spaniard if a joke made about Polish is out of order? But I would much appreciate his input
You said something in your comment that I find very interesting. I feel like it is a common misconception that many have here in the States. I think that the highlighted issue is one of the few issues in which we Americans actually underestimate ourselves. I have actually done a lot of volunteer work for the International Institute of Connecticut (http://iiconn.org/), which is a non-profit that works toward making the transition easier for those who have recently arrived in the States and advocating on behalf of immigrants. My father has a clinic that performs immigration physicals, and I have been very involved with the practice as well, for pretty much my whole life. My parents both emigrated from Greece to come here. You can say that immigration is an issue that I have been concerned about since the day I was born.
It is funny how often I hear fellow Americans say that the US is unwelcoming of immigrants, particularly non-whites. There is some element that holds radical beliefs about ethnic or cultural "purism", but you would be surprised to learn just how open the US's immigration policy is, particularly when compared to Europe. Most experts I know say that other than Canada, the US is the easiest place to immigrate to and assimilate in.
While there is some less savory opposition to immigration in the States (I don't believe that being anti-Immigration and especially anti-Illegal Immigration is necessarily racist, btw) it does not compare to what you see elsewhere. We do not have widespread anti-immigrant riots here as we see in France, or to my great shame, Greece. We also don't have the severe racial quotas you see in places like Japan, or the draconian round up policies of Italy and Australia. Also public sentiment in the States is decidedly more pro-immigration than most other Western Democracies (see http://www.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx vs http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/01/07/uk-britain-immigration-survey-idUKBREA0600F20140107)
I think it is sad that there is opposition to having a more welcoming society in a nation that has been built by generation upon generation of fresh blood and new culture, even if some of the opposition is principled and some of the concerns valid. However, I think we also need to look at how we compare to other societies and realize that the great Melting Pot is actually alive and well, and should be a point of national pride rather than a sore spot that invites negativity.
Or, you know, hearing this from someone who says so in a video, then decides to broadcast it on a worldwide forum.
Wouldn't you feel at least slightly uncomfortable watching a playthrough where someone called their character Surströmming Breivik and made nationalistic and downright eugenic remarks at everyone ("oh, Tamoko, er du fra Kara-Tur? Ikke så godt til dig!" *wroom lightning bolt*)? And then defended it through saying "hey, it's not like I hate all the Scandinavians, it's just how they are usually portrayed, no offense~"?
That's extreme but hey, I searched specifically for offensive Scandinavian stereotypes.
I'm sorry for that, of course it's for example purposes only, not in any way something I would appreciate someone doing or do that myself.
Hey man, i live in Finland and speak Finnish and Swedish (so by extension, i also speak functional norsk). I road tripped all through Norja in 2012. You guys are really chill - you remind me a lot of Finns, moreso than the overly cheery swedes. I had a great time, we drove around, climbed some mountains
http://i.imgur.com/x4ggA2o.jpg
And generally did things which were culturally insensitive...
http://i.imgur.com/PVq4BoS.jpg
You make an interesting point there. Had i done my best "swedish chef" from the muppets, or done a ridiculous german, french, itallian or even british/american accent - nobody would have batted an eye.
Its EXACTLY the same thing, but because im not asian, its suddenly racist.
You have got to ask, why is that?
Now, nobody can deny its offensive. Indeed, if id put on my worst german accent, there could have been some germans who it rubbed thr wrong way - that goes without saying. But nobody would EVER accuse me of racism.
I didnt make any racist claims, i never once decried the asian people (i cant hate them - my best friend is from vietnam, i have cousins from both korea and japan and i speak japanese for fucks sake). I never once said "white people are objectivley better than asians", nor did i imply white superiority or asian inferiority.
Had i done so, then clearly - i would have been racist.
Why is it that seterotypes are off limits for people of different colours? Its a strange double standard.
But everyone's entitled to their own sense of humor
In all honesty, though, this kind of stuff is probably best left not broadcast to the internet as it is a little bit controversial in the race department. My friends and I may joke around like this, too, but I might be a little shy about publicly posting this kind of humor. It's a male drunken silliness thing that's best kept between bros... it doesn't appeal to the largest demographic.
Anyway, Baldurs Gate is fun!
The fact I had to dig up a genocidal maniac (hey, people actually just love joking about Germans and Hitler, which is quite offensive as well) to offend you actually makes me think of another point to make - you Aryan bunch didn't have the problem of enemy propaganda showing you as lesser beings - be it "chopstick ching chong rice loving Asian" or "dirty Slav pig". There was no "white people only" or "nur für Deutsche" for you (all the time plural you, English is weird as hell and I feel the need to be more precise)... which means now it's much more difficult to find a stereotype that would actually provoke a response as negative as shown here.
And I have to add that it's less severe towards Slavic people, since we can blend in more easily, unless the "parrrt of Rrrussian mafia" accent kicks in, let's say I added bits about the past of my part of Europe only as kind of an explanation why I understand how seemingly little things can be offensive.
Besides, @Delicious_Cyan, racism is usually specified as prejudice against people of another race, so I wouldn't be so surprised that people won't call parodying Germans racism if you're white...
It's true that we're all culturally conditioned, even if we don't want to be. I live in Colombia at the moment and I know that here it's perfectly normal and inoffensive for darkskinned people to be called 'negro'/'negra' (these words mean black in English). And when I asked a girl I used to date before I moved to another city, she told me that she liked the idea of me calling her "mi negra". It simply isn't a charged word over here.
But generally race, gender, religion and nationality-based stereotyping are probably the most primitive and reprehensible forms of collectivism, based on ignorance and fear instead of love, and always used to separate rather than unite people. In my opinion, this doesn't translate well to the subject of humor. Even amongst friends who would never take offense I simply won't make jokes about skin color, gender, sexual orientation, religion etc. I genereally don't find them that witty, and besides I'm fully aware that I'm of the "dominant majority" (a white, upper-middle class, heterosexual male), and think that for that reason I ought to be humble and never, not even in jest, help perpetuate any misconceptions that have made me someone with better opportunities in this world than most other people (opportunities I often screw up, but that's another matter
I enjoy this discussion as it raises awareness and shows things from different perspectives, hopefully the tone won't change.