Probably not even that high; but it takes more than just INT or knowledge, or even being really good at maths, to be that kind of revolutionary breakthrough genius guy. You need to be able to make intuitive leaps, seeing connections between seemingly disparate things that no one had thought were connected before etc... it's more a combination of both high INT + high WIS. At least 15 or 14 in both. And probably other stuff as well, like being in the right place at the right time and being able to publish.
And some CHA, some people won't accept someone that looks bad, mostly in the type of human civilization I live in (the silly, unaware, unwise, inconsiderate, money-loving and machiavellian (that is a joke) western consumerist society), they *won't* accept him, but if you are a person with a high CHA, you will be accepted easily.
I think that WIS would find the problem and INT can make a solution, how it goes then changes for every particular case as many different odds could happen.
@CrevsDaak i don't think cha is a huge deal, at least once your established. Stephan hawking is not exactly a stud, but I think he's got a decent reputation. I also don't think your physical appearance has an effect on charisma unless you are either incredibly attractive(+1) or incredibly ugly (-1). Charisma is more about personality. It's a mental trait, not a physical trait.
@meagloth looks bad as is bad dressed/pick his nose/whatever people might find dislikable. I don't look (so) bad, but I have very low CHA, but really it is just the people that don't get what DON'T TALK TO ME, YOU ARE AN IDIOT I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU means (joking again).
Mmm, people have suggested in thread that I would have a high INT (thanks, @megaloth- but learn to study *well* in high school! you'll appreciate it in college, I promise!), but honestly, math and science have never been my thing. I can do them correctly, but it's harder for me then say, social studies, liberal arts, history, whatever (I have no idea what they call the courses anymore). I still say that INT has to be more then a simple IQ test: when I've taken IQ tests (and I think I've done them six times in my life), they generally made me fill out standardized tests, do word problems, figure out the meaning of words and passages, and do puzzles in a short amount of time. I certainly think there's more to intelligence then those simple things.
On the other hand, I'd say charisma almost requires a bit of INT and WIS. I think you could get maybe CHA 12 as an INT 3/WIS 3 moron; anywhere after that, you need more then looks to pull off CHA. It requires the ability to speak well and have people listen, and I think the other mental stats are almost required for that. Though we all use dump stats in game, I find someone at CHA 18 with INT 11 (for Mind Flayers!) and Wis 3 sort of ridiculous. Can they really be so charming and alluring without any common sense or wisdom?
It just doesn't really work for me.
(I suppose I could snark here that I guess it fits a number of reality TV starts, but that would be a bit petty and mean.)
I don't know if I'd say 'INT' is really the same as intelligence at all. It's a stat that governs a certain skillset a character may have in a game. Whereas actual real world intelligence is a combination of many things and the interplay between them... I don't know that it's really fully understood.
I think it may be possible to be charismatic without being particularly knowledgeable, or smart, or wise, or even good looking. Sometimes people are drawn to someone who's just assertive and forceful, even if the things they say don't actually make any sense. How else can you explain the success of some politicians?
@twani I always kinda wanted something to be implemented that made it so that connected stats could not be wildly different. For example, you could not have con and str less that 6 points away from each other, because the muscle mass and exercise and general physical health needed to get to get to 18str automatically I erases you con. Though it would only work one way. You could have high con and low strength. So in order to have have high charisma, you would also need reasonable intelligence, and to have high wisdom, you would need reasonable (but not high) intelligence.
I disagree with the must have decent int for wis...I've met some really not bright people that were fantastic in the common sense and making sound decisions category. It helps...but isn't required. Just my opinion.
I disagree with the must have decent int for wis...I've met some really not bright people that were fantastic in the common sense and making sound decisions category. It helps...but isn't required. Just my opinion.
@illusion yea, yea, I totally agree. I just mean to to have exceptional wisdom (17-20) you'll probably need decent int. (9-10+)
Conversely, some people can absorb an awful lot of knowledge, and/or do complicated sums in their heads, win at every pub quiz... but still be idiots at everything else, like practical stuff, or knowing when they're being had, or they struggle to understand the meaning of certain things. High INT, low WIS types basically. Knowing isn't always the same as understanding. Of course without INT, WIS is useless as every time you're faced with a challenge you have to be begin again from scratch, rather than just recalling how it was dealt with before. But I think a case can be made that it's perfectly possible to have one without the other.
Knowing isn't always the same as understanding. Of course without INT, WIS is useless as every time you're faced with a challenge you have to be begin again from scratch, rather than just recalling how it was dealt with before. But I think a case can be made that it's perfectly possible to have one without the other.
Do you mean to say "without WIS, INT is useless..."? I would say in this case that stored knowledge that prevents you from having to begin from scratch is part of one's WIS, whereas applying such knowledge, finding analogies to a current problem in order to solve that problem etc, would be INT. Or do you reckon this could be using common sense (i.e. WIS)? Man, this is more complicated than I thought...
I guess I just disagree that memory must be linked to intelligence. I mean obviously there is some correlation that someone with high intelligence will have good memory...by the same token I've known some people who are really smart(highly intelligent people...several professors and some of the best IT people I've met)...but can't remember anything ever. They can't remember whether they ate lunch, where they put their hat/wallet/keys, or half the things they've done in any given day. But if you put a problem in front of them they'll solve it amazingly fast.
I've also met people who can remember almost everything that's ever happened to them...can quote every movie ever made...accurately recall conversations from 15 years ago...but can barely read or do basic math.
INT and WIS are related...not necessarily reliant upon each other.
Knowing isn't always the same as understanding. Of course without INT, WIS is useless as every time you're faced with a challenge you have to be begin again from scratch, rather than just recalling how it was dealt with before. But I think a case can be made that it's perfectly possible to have one without the other.
Do you mean to say "without WIS, INT is useless..."? I would say in this case that stored knowledge that prevents you from having to begin from scratch is part of one's WIS, whereas applying such knowledge, finding analogies to a current problem in order to solve that problem etc, would be INT. Or do you reckon this could be using common sense (i.e. WIS)? Man, this is more complicated than I thought...
I'd say it's the other way around, since INT is the stat that mages use when memorizing spells and it's the stat most often checked when knowledge is called for in the game. WIS seems to cover more abstract stuff, like common sense and intuition and applying the knowledge.
Like I mentioned, I don't think INT really means the same as what we typically refer to as intelligence in real life. INT seems to cover a particular set of skills, like memory and maths. Intelligence in real life is many things, and there are probably many different types of it. I know someone who's a walking encyclopedia of knowledge, but struggles to understand things like double entendres.
Quite a good party, but the lack of any thieves may be a problem.
Backups: Khalid Imoen Neera Xzar Monty
As for myself: Race: Half-elf. I'm kind of an outsider of two different cultures Class: Well I'm very much a jack of all trades so a bard might work. However I currently work in IT, have a love of learning and I'm constantly reading and acquiring new skills. I also studied philosophy and literature in college so a Mage sounds more fitting. Alignment: True Neutral. Stats: Strength: 11 Dexterity: 11 Constitution: 15 Intelligence: 16 Wisdom: 14 Charisma: 10
I think these are accurate enough. I'm neither very strong nor agile, but I can take a lot of punishment and pain doesn't bother me that much. Intelligence is tricky to define, if we're going by a very basic standard (i.e. how it's defined in a dictionary) then I think 16 is accurate. Wisdom, another difficult stat to measure. I've again based on a very simple system, because otherwise I could be here all day. I'm not very charismatic, but neither am I crude or boorish.
It could be interesting to roleplay as myself. I tried this with Planescape and it was an enjoyable experience. Planescape, however had a deeper morality system and there were a lot more choices in how to approach a task. With BG's limitations, it might be difficult roleplay an accurate representation of myself.
Regardless I'll give it a try when I get some free time.
So in continuing my game in the few brief periods I get in here and there, I went to get Dynaheir. I had the party buy two scrolls of Invisibility. When they reached to the gnoll stronghold bridge I had Imoen sniper the two ogres. (I'm metagaming/using cheese.) A little painstaking to do it that way. But again, Khalid is my only meleer. Then I had Imoen consume the potion of Invisibility Khaild had; and she crept off with the two Invisibility scrolls on her. When she reached Dynaheir she had her join, then gave her the two scrolls. Dynaheir cast Invisibility on both of them and they returned to the bridge and left.
The party will come back to the gnoll stronghold map when they're a bit stronger.
In Nashkel I did have Dyna speak to Minsc and added him just long enough to park hm in the tavern where Volo is.
I went back to Beregost and had Imoen steal the lightning wand from the estate at the north end of town.
Then I decided to do some selective, relatively easy sidequests. I defeated Vax and Zal. I rescued Brage.
And then in an area transition Garrick and Neera both got killed by an ogre mage. Right when this happened I realized that rather than replacing them, or allowing limited resurrection, etc., doing that would not have been the most fun thing for me to do. And right now a fun diversion is what I'm looking for from this game. So since I really like playing with this party quite a bit, I decided to drop the challenge aspect of the game and will complete it just as a fun tactical playthrough. Not even going to worry about no-reload.
I think next I'll probably hit the Bassilisk map, collect the bounty on Bassilus, and complete the Prism bounty quest (helping him of course, especially with this party). Perhaps also I'll buy a potion of master thievery from Erdane and pickpocket Algernon's Cloak for Garrick.
Glad to see you're enjoying your playthrough Is the invisibility strategy at the Gnoll Stronghold a proven one? I'm not sure if it is an SCS thing, but they normally block the way forcing me to kill at least a couple of them.
I don't have SCS installed, but there was plenty of room to get past the gnolls. I think a lower number of them spawned because only Imoen entered their field of perception. When there are more of them spawning I could see how they might block the narrowest pathways, though.
I wonder now if SCS spawns considerably more of them than vanilla?
Another noteworthy thing for me: I still like Khalid regardless of him being separated from Jaheira. But I now realize that he is more endearing to me when paired with her. Interesting. It's probably just a reflection of how I'm accustomed to the two of them being joined at the hip in BG1. But he seems more lost and weak without her.
@Blackraventhis test usually overestimates stats, if you like:P
I just took the quiz from the "this" link above and want to jot down my results while they are still fresh in mind.
Human Fighter/Sorcerer Level 5/5. -Lawful Good with Lawful Neutral a close second [26-23] Strength------------15 Dexterity----------- 16 Constitution---------16 Intelligence----------16 Wisdom-------------14 Charisma----------- 14
Another run-through of the quiz produced Sorcerer Level 7 with a point less in Strength and Dexterity and a point more in Intelligence and Constitution. Choices, choices. Hmmmmm?
I'm still having a good time with my playthrough with this theme, btw.
Khalid is my only true meleer so I've had to adjust strategy accordingly. But after his last level-up at the bandit camp to Fighter 5 he is at AC -6. So he almost never gets hit. I don't experience any more morale failures with him than any other NPCs (when any of them get down to a just few HP they are all at risk to bolt). But anyway, he's doing great.
If I do complete this game it'll be much tougher toward the very end, though. And poor Khalid will have take all the melee punishment in the final battle. But hopefully I can get him so buffed with potions that he'll manage it. And I'll have summoned monsters, which helps a bit.
I had somewhat forgotten the extent to which Khalid is certifiably badass by the time he gets 4 pips in long sword. He is spraying gore as he goes. With the proper equipment he rarely gets hit (especially from missiles). Dynahier routinely casts Strength on him, which is long-lasting (1 hour/level). It's sort of gratifying to see Khalid pretty much be managing the front line so handily all by himself, given his confidence issues.
Imoen with the Shadow Armor and Dagger of Venom is a backstabbing juggernaut. She also has the Bracers of Archery for when she pulls back from a backstab. The garden variety mobs can pretty much be handled by Khalid and Imoen alone. They don't actually need any spells from the casters. I'm going to start casting Strength on Imoen as well.
Garrick has become very formidable now too with the Light Crossbow of Speed + bolts of biting, Algernon's Cloak, and Gregan's Harp. He also has the Ring of the Victor and Necklace of Missiles, although he doesn't really need them much. Plus he has plenty of wands and the usual plethora of dropped scrolls.
My Priest of Lathander/Mage I'm now having fun using like a Fighter/Mage, basically. He has the Robe of the Good Archmagi, and I gave him the Gauntlets of Dexterity and Shield Amulet; so his AC gets down to -1. He has one pip each in Quarterstaff and Two-Handed Weapon, and he's wielding Aule's Staff. With Strength, Draw Upon Holy Might, and Boon of Lathander, he's really pretty good as a meleer (19 Str and 19 Dex). Hasted he'll have 3 APR for the duration of Boon of Lathander. Since I have plenty of spellcasting power also with Dynaheir, Neera, and Garrick for the staple disabling spells (Blind, Hold, Emotion, etc.), I have him enjoy some fun spells in combat--Slow, Ghoul Touch, Magic Missile, etc.
Anyway, I think I may actually venture down into Durlag's with this bunch.
I'm not playing with SCS, and with that mod I would probably enjoy the battles all the more for being more hard won. But it's still pretty fun to see this non-powergame group excel in a vanilla game.
One more thing to add about this: Neera having a weapons prof in quarterstaff and that goofy staff of hers makes her pretty useless for anything but spellcasting. It takes seemingly forever before a Mage gets a second weapons prof for Darts or Sling. (What is it? Level 6? She's at level 5 now.) On the other hand, I noticed that with Davaeorn's bracers her AC is 2. So maybe I can have her help out with the staff (a different one than her own one)--carefully--and keep her from getting hurt most of the time.
Yeah right now Xzar is level 5 in my playthrough, and I'm STILL waiting to add a pip in slings for him! Currently, his Thac0 is like 24 or something similarly useless
What I do for Xzar is gather up the throwing daggers from the skeletons on the High Hedge map. I'll buy them too from the Thunderhammer smithy. Mage thac0 sucks to begin with, but at least Xzar can get in an occasional throwing dagger now and again.
Comments
I think that WIS would find the problem and INT can make a solution, how it goes then changes for every particular case as many different odds could happen.
I don't look (so) bad, but I have very low CHA, but really it is just the people that don't get what DON'T TALK TO ME, YOU ARE AN IDIOT I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU means (joking again).
On the other hand, I'd say charisma almost requires a bit of INT and WIS. I think you could get maybe CHA 12 as an INT 3/WIS 3 moron; anywhere after that, you need more then looks to pull off CHA. It requires the ability to speak well and have people listen, and I think the other mental stats are almost required for that. Though we all use dump stats in game, I find someone at CHA 18 with INT 11 (for Mind Flayers!) and Wis 3 sort of ridiculous. Can they really be so charming and alluring without any common sense or wisdom?
It just doesn't really work for me.
(I suppose I could snark here that I guess it fits a number of reality TV starts, but that would be a bit petty and mean.)
I think it may be possible to be charismatic without being particularly knowledgeable, or smart, or wise, or even good looking. Sometimes people are drawn to someone who's just assertive and forceful, even if the things they say don't actually make any sense. How else can you explain the success of some politicians?
I would say in this case that stored knowledge that prevents you from having to begin from scratch is part of one's WIS, whereas applying such knowledge, finding analogies to a current problem in order to solve that problem etc, would be INT. Or do you reckon this could be using common sense (i.e. WIS)?
Man, this is more complicated than I thought...
I've also met people who can remember almost everything that's ever happened to them...can quote every movie ever made...accurately recall conversations from 15 years ago...but can barely read or do basic math.
INT and WIS are related...not necessarily reliant upon each other.
Like I mentioned, I don't think INT really means the same as what we typically refer to as intelligence in real life. INT seems to cover a particular set of skills, like memory and maths. Intelligence in real life is many things, and there are probably many different types of it. I know someone who's a walking encyclopedia of knowledge, but struggles to understand things like double entendres.
Favourite party:
Jaheria
Viconia
Edwin
Dorn
Kivan
Quite a good party, but the lack of any thieves may be a problem.
Backups:
Khalid
Imoen
Neera
Xzar
Monty
As for myself:
Race: Half-elf. I'm kind of an outsider of two different cultures
Class: Well I'm very much a jack of all trades so a bard might work. However I currently work in IT, have a love of learning and I'm constantly reading and acquiring new skills. I also studied philosophy and literature in college so a Mage sounds more fitting.
Alignment: True Neutral.
Stats:
Strength: 11
Dexterity: 11
Constitution: 15
Intelligence: 16
Wisdom: 14
Charisma: 10
I think these are accurate enough. I'm neither very strong nor agile, but I can take a lot of punishment and pain doesn't bother me that much. Intelligence is tricky to define, if we're going by a very basic standard (i.e. how it's defined in a dictionary) then I think 16 is accurate. Wisdom, another difficult stat to measure. I've again based on a very simple system, because otherwise I could be here all day. I'm not very charismatic, but neither am I crude or boorish.
It could be interesting to roleplay as myself. I tried this with Planescape and it was an enjoyable experience. Planescape, however had a deeper morality system and there were a lot more choices in how to approach a task. With BG's limitations, it might be difficult roleplay an accurate representation of myself.
Regardless I'll give it a try when I get some free time.
The party will come back to the gnoll stronghold map when they're a bit stronger.
In Nashkel I did have Dyna speak to Minsc and added him just long enough to park hm in the tavern where Volo is.
I went back to Beregost and had Imoen steal the lightning wand from the estate at the north end of town.
Then I decided to do some selective, relatively easy sidequests. I defeated Vax and Zal. I rescued Brage.
And then in an area transition Garrick and Neera both got killed by an ogre mage. Right when this happened I realized that rather than replacing them, or allowing limited resurrection, etc., doing that would not have been the most fun thing for me to do. And right now a fun diversion is what I'm looking for from this game. So since I really like playing with this party quite a bit, I decided to drop the challenge aspect of the game and will complete it just as a fun tactical playthrough. Not even going to worry about no-reload.
I think next I'll probably hit the Bassilisk map, collect the bounty on Bassilus, and complete the Prism bounty quest (helping him of course, especially with this party). Perhaps also I'll buy a potion of master thievery from Erdane and pickpocket Algernon's Cloak for Garrick.
Is the invisibility strategy at the Gnoll Stronghold a proven one? I'm not sure if it is an SCS thing, but they normally block the way forcing me to kill at least a couple of them.
I wonder now if SCS spawns considerably more of them than vanilla?
Human Fighter/Sorcerer Level 5/5. -Lawful Good with Lawful Neutral a close second [26-23]
Strength------------15
Dexterity----------- 16
Constitution---------16
Intelligence----------16
Wisdom-------------14
Charisma----------- 14
Another run-through of the quiz produced Sorcerer Level 7 with a point less in Strength and Dexterity and a point more in Intelligence and Constitution. Choices, choices. Hmmmmm?
Top 15 BG1vanilla Party Members:
1)~ Imoen
2)~ Jaheira
3)~ Kivan
4)~ Garrick
5)~ Minsc
6)~ Branwen
7)~ Ajantis
8)~ Xan
9)~ Khalid
10)~ Coran
11)~ Yeslick
12)~ Dynaheir
13)~ Kagain
14)~ Safana
15)~ Edwin
Is it even possible to play a Fighter/Sorceror Multi in BG????
Khalid is my only true meleer so I've had to adjust strategy accordingly. But after his last level-up at the bandit camp to Fighter 5 he is at AC -6. So he almost never gets hit. I don't experience any more morale failures with him than any other NPCs (when any of them get down to a just few HP they are all at risk to bolt). But anyway, he's doing great.
If I do complete this game it'll be much tougher toward the very end, though. And poor Khalid will have take all the melee punishment in the final battle. But hopefully I can get him so buffed with potions that he'll manage it. And I'll have summoned monsters, which helps a bit.
Priest of Lathander 4/Mage 5
Imoen (thief throughout)
Khalid
Neera
Garrick
Dynaheir
I had somewhat forgotten the extent to which Khalid is certifiably badass by the time he gets 4 pips in long sword. He is spraying gore as he goes. With the proper equipment he rarely gets hit (especially from missiles). Dynahier routinely casts Strength on him, which is long-lasting (1 hour/level). It's sort of gratifying to see Khalid pretty much be managing the front line so handily all by himself, given his confidence issues.
Imoen with the Shadow Armor and Dagger of Venom is a backstabbing juggernaut. She also has the Bracers of Archery for when she pulls back from a backstab. The garden variety mobs can pretty much be handled by Khalid and Imoen alone. They don't actually need any spells from the casters. I'm going to start casting Strength on Imoen as well.
Garrick has become very formidable now too with the Light Crossbow of Speed + bolts of biting, Algernon's Cloak, and Gregan's Harp. He also has the Ring of the Victor and Necklace of Missiles, although he doesn't really need them much. Plus he has plenty of wands and the usual plethora of dropped scrolls.
My Priest of Lathander/Mage I'm now having fun using like a Fighter/Mage, basically. He has the Robe of the Good Archmagi, and I gave him the Gauntlets of Dexterity and Shield Amulet; so his AC gets down to -1. He has one pip each in Quarterstaff and Two-Handed Weapon, and he's wielding Aule's Staff. With Strength, Draw Upon Holy Might, and Boon of Lathander, he's really pretty good as a meleer (19 Str and 19 Dex). Hasted he'll have 3 APR for the duration of Boon of Lathander. Since I have plenty of spellcasting power also with Dynaheir, Neera, and Garrick for the staple disabling spells (Blind, Hold, Emotion, etc.), I have him enjoy some fun spells in combat--Slow, Ghoul Touch, Magic Missile, etc.
Anyway, I think I may actually venture down into Durlag's with this bunch.
I'm not playing with SCS, and with that mod I would probably enjoy the battles all the more for being more hard won. But it's still pretty fun to see this non-powergame group excel in a vanilla game.