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Need some advice for a duo run

GalaxyNote2GalaxyNote2 Member Posts: 10
edited April 2014 in New Players (NO SPOILERS!)
I tried out this game for the first time yesterday with a friend. I was playing with a female illusionist/cleric, but she wants me to roleplay as a male human or elf lol. We both also find controlling NPCs a hassle, so we really want to do a duo run. I know that the dialogue of the NPCs are a big part of the fun of this game, so I'll probably play a single player game with a full party some other time. Chances are we'll play BB 2:EE as well.

After reading threads about the mage/thief, I've decided to multiclass an elven mage/thief and I've been thinking about what class my friend should take. I'm leaning towards an half elf cleric/fighter so she can tank and heal us. She wants to play a fighter class and simply smash things. Whereas I like to play a very versatile class and learning how to play it effectively. She would prefer to play as an Evil party, but I've been reading that playing Evil can quickly become frustrating for various reasons.

Since I'm new to the game I would like some advice about which class would be best for her to take, so that we'll be able to go trough this game without dying too much. Also some advice on weapon specialization is appreciated.

Comments

  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    edited April 2014
    If you divide the character classes into four basic types, you'd get: Warrior, Priest, Rogue, Wizard.
    - Warriors are generally used for tanking and damage dealing.
    - Priests can be good support fighters, healers and buffers.
    - Rogues are generally fairly good ranged attackers, thieves are good damage dealers through backstabs, bards have a nice song, and both bards and thieves are good utility characters (thieves can scout while stealthed, detect/disarm traps, pick locks among other things, bards have a pickpocketing skill that increses with levels and are good backup mages).
    - Wizards can deal damage with their spells, but are most useful for their controlling spells (they have all kinds of spells that can hamper enemies' movement or affect their will, making them easy prey).

    With a FIghter/Cleric and a Mage/Thief you'd have everything covered, so they would make a great duo to take the Sword Coast by storm.
    Your Mage/Thief (I'd prefer gnome Illusionist/Thief because you get an extra spell per level for sacrificing acces to a dispensable spell school: Necromancy) will be very vulnerable at the beginning of the game, because it's a combination of two classes that have limited access to protective armor and that will get limited hitpoints. You'll also have few spells to cast (especially if you go elven mage/thief rather than gnomish illusionist/thief). If however you have the patience for your character to advance through the game, you'll find out that what you've been reading on the forums is correct: it's a great multiclass.

    As tou your friend, who says she likes to smash things, Fighter/Cleric could be a great option because it's a great class for smashing indeed. You could also consider a half-elf Cleric/Ranger for her becasue they get access to a wider selection of spells than Fighter/Clerics. Both would be fine classes though, because simply smashing things could get old after a while, and your friend might be pleased that her character is also useful for other things, such as healing, buffing your party, or casting a few offensive spells.

    If you go evil, and pick the game's obviously evil dialogue options and actions, the game will be less rewarding in terms of experience and quest rewards. Items will also be more expensive in stores. And if your reputation goes down really low, you might have to deal with law enforcers or bounty hunters who come after you. You could also play a more subtle evil that affects your reputation and rewards to a much lesser extent.
    I'd go with a good/neutral aligned party on a first playthrough, simply to prevent yourself from having a harder time than you'll already have anyway th first time playing.
    If you are decided about playing evil, you can discard what I said about your friend playing a Cleric/Ranger, because they need to be good aligned.


  • GalaxyNote2GalaxyNote2 Member Posts: 10
    edited April 2014
    Thank you Blackraven for writing that lengthy helpful response. I would prefer playing as an Illusionist, but to humor my friend I'll play as an Elf. I'm aware that my character will be very vulnerable, but I have the patience for that. I'm thinking of picking the 'find familiar' spell to get my hit points up, and maybe carefully use the familiar (don't want to take a constitution hit). Maybe I'll pick Shield as the second spell as the game says it lasts for 1 hour, or otherwise inscribe the armor scroll. I'm sure that the Ring of Wizardry will also help.

    I'm thinking of becoming proficient in short bows and longswords given the bonus that Elves get and then go for single weapon style. Also is it worth putting all my points into lock picking to raid Candlekeep or should I put everything in trap finding?

    I've been thinking of playing a ranger/cleric myself sometime, given how that class gets access to all the druid spells. I'll see if she's fine with playing one, as she believes she sucks with spells.

    I think we'll probably play as good-aligned characters.

    Thanks again

    Post edited by GalaxyNote2 on
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,307
    The familiar can be asked to live in your pack... Where he/she'll be entirely safe...
    Ranger/Cleric would fit the smash-nasty approach (although you'll be limited to blunt weapons).
    Alternatively play one of the paladin kits... Powerful in melee and get more options later (when a straight fighter might get boring). Blackguard would be the option if you decide to go evil.
  • GalaxyNote2GalaxyNote2 Member Posts: 10
    edited April 2014
    Yeah I read that I can put the familiar in my pack. I was just considering using it in battle until it takes 1 hit or so. I've considered a Paladin kit, but I think a Ranger/Cleric would be more versatile. To play evil I'll have to stay aware of the game mechanics, which I believe may well interfere with enjoying the game for the first time.

    For thieving skills I'm thinking of putting all my level 1 points into open locks so I can raid Candlekeep. Then I'll get disarm traps to 60 or so and open locks to 60 and use potions where necessary. The remaining points can then go into move silently and detect illusions so I can use my spells for invisibility backstabs.

  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,307
    Fair enough... The better combat familiars are good aligned btw.
    It's also worth remembering that only Player 1 can have a familiar... So at creation, make sure your Mage/thief is in the top slot... It's an annoying engine limitation.
  • GalaxyNote2GalaxyNote2 Member Posts: 10
    edited April 2014
    I see, I didn't know that only Player 1 can have a familiar, I thought that NPCs just couldn't have one. Thanks.

    My friend apparently hates the idea of dual wielding maces, even if they're really good like the stupefier. So now she's a Cavalier specialized in 2 handed weapon style. Wish me luck lol...
    Post edited by GalaxyNote2 on
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    A Cavalier with 2-handed weapon style is actually a very strong choice, especially coupled with 2-handed swords. I'll limit the spoilers, but there is a very nice paladin-appropriate weapon in BG2. Cavalier immunities also really help early in BG1:EE.

    Paladins eventually get access to quite a few useful cleric spells, but not until BG2 unless you've removed the XP cap (which might be a good idea with for a duo). Until then most of your healing will probably come from potions. This shouldn't be too much of a problem as you'll quickly have more money than you need. Your Paladin friend can use Cleric spells from Scrolls as well, so that's an option if you need it.
  • GalaxyNote2GalaxyNote2 Member Posts: 10
    Yeah I read about Carsomyr and the Blessed Bracers lol. I've read a fair bit about the metagame by now, because I just want make smart decisions about how to play... I suppose it would be wise if she also specialized in throwing axes so she has a ranged weapon and specializing in quarterstaffs to do blunt damage?

    Since I'll be playing as an Elf, I really think I may as well play as a mage/thief/fighter, but I'm not sure which weapons to specialize in. I've read that quarterstaffs are really good for backstabbing, but that it would be better to become specialized in 2 weapon style, perhaps longswords although scimitars would also give me access to the Wakizashi, a piercing weapon. Though I doubt we'll bother killing Drizzt for the scimitars.

    Then there are longbows that are apparently good in BG1:EE, but bad in BG2:EE, so I could maybe just rely on the +1thac0 bonus Elves get with bows. Then there's that venom dagger that's good for backstabbing and those strong katana's that can be dual wielded in BG2...

    Not sure what to go for lol..
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited April 2014
    If you're making a Mage/Thief/Fighter i would advice you to start with specializing in a one handed weapon. At the start of the game you'll be able to use a large shield with that weapon to protect yourself against ranged attacks and boost your AC for the lower levels where you'll be lacking in survivability.

    Then you can start placing proficiency points into dual wield and once you get a few levels under your belt and some nice items, drop the shield and dual wield instead.

    The sling is also an amazing weapon and you can use it with a shield. I would probably start with something like this.

    ** Long sword
    ** Sling

    Then put the rest of your points into dual wield. You'll get a great long sword early in BG1 and there are several good ones in BG2. You'll be able to reach ** in dual wield and get the last point (***) in BG2.

    While quarter staffs are great, i probably wouldn't use them on a F/M/T. You'll only need blunt damage in BG2 and then you can pick up proficiency points in War hammer/flail instead, that way you can dual wield a long sword and a warhammer/flail, letting you damage every enemy in the game.

    Your STR bonus will go over to your sling, so it'll be the perfect ranged weapon for you in BG1.

    F/M/T

    STR : 18/xx
    DEX : 18
    CON : 16-18
    INT : 18
    WIS : XX
    CHA : XX

    If you roll for a bit you should be able to reach stats like that. You can go for less, but i would advice against it. I wouldn't put WIS or CHA under 8 unless you're going to be power gaming.

    [Edited] :

    You could also go with Darts instead of a sling, that way you can use the amazing Dart of Wounding and Stunning.

    ** Long Sword
    * Dart
    * Dual Wield

    Would end up with this in BG1.

    ** Long Sword
    * Dart
    *** Dual wield

    It's great to have a ranged weapon early on in the game when you're low level. I would pick either dart or sling on your F/M/T.
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    I subscribe to everything @SionV said above. It's how I usually build up my dualwielding characters. An alternative to longswords could be scimitars as your blade of choice. There are good weapons of both types throughout the two games (with enchanted long swords being slightly more diverse in equipped effects I think). An option for later on (BG2) would be to become proficient/specialized in a blunt weapon as well (maces, clubs, flails) because you'll find that blunt weapons work better against certain types of enemies.

    As to your question about the Cavalier using axes and staves.
    The axes are a great idea. A Cavalier with high Strength and Dex will deal very good ranged damage with their throwing axes. A very useful fighting style in both BG1 and BG2.
    It's true that staves deal blunt damage and that there are very good staves throughout the trilogy. But for flavor I wouldn't have a Cavalier use a quarterstaff. I'd rather have them specialize 2h Swords, and for blunt damage in Flails or Maces, with Flails offering the better weapons in BG2. If your friend insists in having her Cavalier dualwield, Flails are a great pick for BG2.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317

    Maybe I'll pick Shield as the second spell as the game says it lasts for 1 hour

    Just a heads up. When a spell in the game says it lasts for 1 hour it means 5 minutes in real world time (which is still a very long time I just felt that this should be made clear).
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    I also agree with everything @SionIV‌ said except on one thing, I would chose Long Bow over Sling for BG1.

    Considering a level 1 elf F/M/T with 19 Dex and 18/00 Str with ** in Sling and ** in Long Bow

    With sling : 16 Thaco, 10-13 damage, 1.5 APR. Average damage per round 11.5 * 1.5 = 17.25
    With Long Bow : 14 Thaco, 5-10 damage, 2.5 APR. Average damage per round 7.5 * 2.5 = 18.75

    So even with a Str score of 18/00 which is greatly favorising sling over Long Bow, the later is still superior at level one. And later in BG1, with arrows of acid (+2d6 damage no save), arrows of detonation and arrows of dispelling the Long Bow is going to kick some serious asses.

    Later in BG2, ranged weapons will become less and less useful whatever your pick, so you can focus on early efficiency (to my mind)

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    Gotural said:

    I also agree with everything @SionIV‌ said except on one thing, I would chose Long Bow over Sling for BG1.

    Considering a level 1 elf F/M/T with 19 Dex and 18/00 Str with ** in Sling and ** in Long Bow

    With sling : 16 Thaco, 10-13 damage, 1.5 APR. Average damage per round 11.5 * 1.5 = 17.25
    With Long Bow : 14 Thaco, 5-10 damage, 2.5 APR. Average damage per round 7.5 * 2.5 = 18.75

    So even with a Str score of 18/00 which is greatly favorising sling over Long Bow, the later is still superior at level one. And later in BG1, with arrows of acid (+2d6 damage no save), arrows of detonation and arrows of dispelling the Long Bow is going to kick some serious asses.

    Later in BG2, ranged weapons will become less and less useful whatever your pick, so you can focus on early efficiency (to my mind)

    You're forgetting that you can use a Large Shield +2 while you're using a sling.

    17.25 +3AC (+1AC missile)
    18.75

    Once he gets DuHM he'll deal even more damage with the sling than the bow.

    And out of curiosity how do you get +1 APR with a LONGBOW?
  • WolkWolk Member Posts: 279
    @SionIV‌

    You have a base 2 APR with every bow instead of 1for most weapons (like a sling) Darts have 3 and throwing daggers also have 2. The throwing dagger is one of the best thrown weapon because it also gets strengh bonus and gives you a melee weapon proficiency.
  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    Just shortly... Fighter/Cleric and Thief/Mage is the best option.
    Alternatively, Fighter/Thief and Cleric/Mage balances the power a bit more throughout the whole game.

    Alternatively...a Paladin kit (Cavalier or Blackguard - will be able to heal a bit later) and a Mage/Thief...or possibly a Blade if you want more difficulty. However, you will miss out some perks of a straight class and I would not recommend that if you haven't finished BG at least once.
    (Yes. It can be beaten even solo or with only few party members and with obscure class combos, but it is mostly much tougher than the usual 2xmulticlass to cover everything.)
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    But in exchange you have better Thac0 so I guess it is pretty fair. Honestly I would pick Long Bow just to be able to use the powerful magical arrows of BG1.
  • GalaxyNote2GalaxyNote2 Member Posts: 10
    edited April 2014
    Well I've rolled my character and I specialized in Longswords and Longbows since I thought a Longbow is more fitting for an Elf. Since many people are asking for a Longbow +3 with unlimited ammo to be added to BG2 I really hope the developers will put one in the game before we get to BG2. My friend rolled a cavalier that she's happy with and we're slowly progressing through trial and error. I forgot to put all my points into opening locks so I was unable to get the Star Sapphire, but I guess I can get it later in the game.

    image
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    I though it was only the shortbow you got an additional APR with? Was this changed in BGEE or always like that? Seems odd.
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    Gotural said:

    But in exchange you have better Thac0 so I guess it is pretty fair. Honestly I would pick Long Bow just to be able to use the powerful magical arrows of BG1.

    I agree that bows are the best ranged weapons in BG1. Enemies fall before they can even counterattack...
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    It was already like that in BG1. Every bows have 2 base APR.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @GalaxyNote2‌ Heh, I adore FF9.

    (F/)M/T and a Ranger/Cleric might be the ultimate duo party. Fighter/Cleric is almost as good.
  • GalaxyNote2GalaxyNote2 Member Posts: 10
    @FinneousPJ Heh, so do I. I grew up on that game :). Harder to decipher is the background I used, which is the background used for the album 'Palms' from Chino Moreno of Deftones, one of my favorite bands.

    We already started to play with my friend using a Cavalier, though unfortunately I haven't had a lot of time to play this fun game.
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