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How do I make Edwin stronger in BG:EE and how does spell learning work.

So I got Edwin cuz he is the strongest Mage NPC, but so far at level 4 his only damaging spell is magic missile. Where do I find the good scrolls for him to learn? Will he learn any spells by just leveling?

Also, how does spell learning work? From what I have gathered is that mages HAVE to buy scrolls and learn spells from them, if so then Mage cannot be really good until reaching baldur's gate cuz that's where the good vendors are. Sorcerers learn spells as they level, but then it means that a sorcerer can have access to spells sooner than a Mage, depending how high you can level up before reaching BG. Right?

I read that priests have access to all spells, they just need to level up to gain access to them, is this true?

Thanks.

Comments

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    Just a couple of fine points to the excellent post made by @SionIV.

    1. Sorcerers do get to pick from a (full) list of spells as they level up, but... The also gain access to higher level spells later than Wizards. Where a Wizard can cast 3rd level spells at 5th level, I think a Sorcerer has to wait until he reaches 6th or 7th level to do so.

    2. There are several places to purchase spells before reaching the gate. high hedge is probably the best, but not the only. Look around. Open every barrel and pick up every scroll that you encounter. There's some good stuff around.

    3. Edwin's "Power" isn't necessarily in his damage potential. At the end of the day, your fighters will FAR outstrip your wizards for the damage they do. nevertheless, Edwin is VERY powerful. Once he starts casting sleep and web and horror and other battlefield control spells, you will see a significant benefit. And Edwin can cast more spells per day than anyone BUT a Sorcerer.

    4. And Edwin is more versatile than a Sorcerer, particularly for someone who isn't as conversant in what the spells all do. There are some spells where their power is not as obvious. There are some spells that look great at lower levels, but don't scale (sleep for example) as you gain levels. Edwin can memorize these and isn't hampered by having them later on.

    5. Divine casters get immediate access to all DIVINE spells, not all spells. A Cleric will never cast Fireball (unless he is a Cleric/Mage) as for instance, because Fireball is an Arcane spell, not a divine one. And Druids have access to (a few) divine spells that Clerics don't get. So don't fall under the illusion that Divine casters can cast EVERYTHING. They can't.

    If you aren't as familiar with D&D 2E rules, that's fine. There is still loads of fun to be had. but play around with a Wizard first to see what does what and why. Switch up spells. Try them out in different scenarios. And do some online research. there are always people posting interesting and unique ways to handle situations. And have fun with the game.

    SionIVBlackravensqualltheonlyJuliusBorisov
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,206
    edited April 2014
    You can buy skull trap in High Hedge. That will be a very effective damage spell throughout the game if that is what you are looking for. You'll need to be level 5 however to memorize the spell (you can still learn it you just won't be able to cast it until edwin reaches level 5).

    Otherwise Melf's Acid Arrow is another option for you that he could be using. Aganazzar's Scorcher is another damage spell that you can probably buy at high hedge that would work (it just comes with the risk of you hurting your own party members). As others have noted damage spells are not the only approach to taking with the game.

    Generally you can buy spells that early (that you can actually use) at either High Hedge (skull trap and many others can be found here) or the Feldpost Inn in Beregost (Glitterdust can be found here).

    BlackravensqualltheonlyJuliusBorisov
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    Edwin is the best mage in BG1, he has the most spells of any other mage (in BGEE Baeloth the Sorcerer gets more spells per day but less variety) and gives up the weakest opposed school, Divination. Mages do not learn new spells when they gain levels, Sorcerers do but are limited in the variety of spells that they can cast. Good places to find scrolls are Sorcerous Sundries in Baldur's Gate city, random drops and inside chests throughout the Sword Coast (check everything as you make your way through the game since some rare spells can not be purchased), and the best option for getting many spells of all kinds of levels all at once, High Hedge. High Hedge is the area just west of Beregost, go inside the large keep looking building and you can buy 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level spells from Thalantyr. He also sells some decent wands, and other useful magical items. Being evil aligned Edwin wont be able to wear either of the Robes of the Arch Magi that he sells (these are the best robes in BG1) but you will find a Robe of the Evil Arch Magi later in the game off of one of the "boss" characters later on.

    Mages learn spells from scrolls. To do so, right click on a scroll, and click the "Memorize" or "Learn Scroll" button on the buttom of its description. Like I said, there are many great scrolls (up to level 3) outside of Baldur's Gate at High Hedge. This will keep you rich in new spells up to character level 7, by then you'll definitely be inside Baldur's Gate city.

    Sorcerers actually get spells later than a mage. One of the drawbacks of having more spell castings per day, and not needing to memorize scrolls. A Mage will gain a new level of spells (ie 1st level spells, 2nd level spells etc.) after every two levels gained beyond 1st. So, 2nd level spells at level 3, 3rd level spells at level 5, 4th level spells at 7th and so on. A Sorcerer uses the same formula but is delayed by 1 level. So, a Sorcerer wont gain 2nd level spells until level 4, 3rd level spells until 6th, 4th level spells until 8th and so on. Having access to High Hedge, and being able to scribe scrolls of a higher level than you can currently cast means that Mages should always get new spells earlier than a sorcerer.

    Priests have access to all priest spells of all levels they can cast, but choose from amongst them which ones to memorize each day, like a Wizard. Priest spells are not the same as mage spells, priests do not cast Magic missile for example. Most priest spells are focused on healing damage, buffing yourself and allies, debuffing your enemies, and summoning creatures. They do have a few direct damage spells but they are few and far between and typically not as potent as mage damaging spells of the same level.

    BlackravenSionIVsqualltheonlyJuliusBorisov
  • squalltheonlysqualltheonly Member Posts: 40
    Awesome replies guys, thanks.

    I noticed the vendor in High Edge, bought some stuff from him but forgot to get the rest. I was even thinking of killing him for the 2k XP from each of his golems, glad I didn't. I have web already and sleep, but I have been afraid of using AoE spells cuz I don't want to hit 3 of my party members. My PC is a Cavalier and he tanks with Dorn and Khalid, then on the back line I Edwin, Imoen, and Branwen. I noticed back when I had Neera, that she used Color Spray and it knocked down 2 of my Melee, since then I have been scared of AoE.

    I see they are very popular, and I understand why, DPS in general want to hit multiple mobs at once. But do I have to plan them better on this game? Maybe lure groups of mobs away? Or send 1 Melee to be a guinea pig and be hit by the spells?

  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    image
    Go to high hedge. Make sure to talk to thalantyr before his golems murder you, and you should also find some good spells along the way, before you get to baldurs gate.

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686

    Awesome replies guys, thanks.

    I noticed the vendor in High Edge, bought some stuff from him but forgot to get the rest. I was even thinking of killing him for the 2k XP from each of his golems, glad I didn't. I have web already and sleep, but I have been afraid of using AoE spells cuz I don't want to hit 3 of my party members. My PC is a Cavalier and he tanks with Dorn and Khalid, then on the back line I Edwin, Imoen, and Branwen. I noticed back when I had Neera, that she used Color Spray and it knocked down 2 of my Melee, since then I have been scared of AoE.

    I see they are very popular, and I understand why, DPS in general want to hit multiple mobs at once. But do I have to plan them better on this game? Maybe lure groups of mobs away? Or send 1 Melee to be a guinea pig and be hit by the spells?

    Not all spells hit your own party members.

    Fireball will hit your party members.
    Color Spray will hit your party members.
    Skull Trap will hit your party members.
    Hold won't hit your party members.
    Sleep won't hit your party members.

    You just have to figure out what spells you can use without causing friendly fire. It takes quite a bit time to learn the different spells, but it's well worth it.

    A mage is only as powerful as your knowledge of the spells that are in the game, and how to use them against the computer AI.

    JuliusBorisov
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    Haha, you're a cavalier and you have Edwin and dorn?

    SionIV
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    meagloth said:

    Haha, you're a cavalier and you have Edwin and dorn?

    Shh! He's trying to convert them!

    JuliusBorisov
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    Most spells will tell you if they target enemies only or all creatures.

    elminster
  • squalltheonlysqualltheonly Member Posts: 40
    This is my first play thru, so I am not RPing. I know I should had gone with Dhynaer (I apologize for misspell) for the Mage, since she is lawful good but I heard so many great things about Edwin, that I had to try him out. Dorn is, well he is Dorn, big guy with an even bigger sword, crap HP though but he hits so freaking hard that he is worth it.

    Both of them complaint sometimes when I help people, I just hope they don't leave me eventually, that would suck.

    I will try all spells and decide which ones I will keep, even if they do hit my party. I believe Cavalier has extra fire defense, so fireball to his face wouldn't be so bad.

    Is 3 Melee and 3 ranged a good set up? Or maybe drop 1 Melee and get a 4th ranged, a Mage like Xar? Since I killed Minsc's girl, Xar is the only Mage left I think.

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    edited April 2014

    This is my first play thru, so I am not RPing. I know I should had gone with Dhynaer (I apologize for misspell) for the Mage, since she is lawful good but I heard so many great things about Edwin, that I had to try him out. Dorn is, well he is Dorn, big guy with an even bigger sword, crap HP though but he hits so freaking hard that he is worth it.

    Both of them complaint sometimes when I help people, I just hope they don't leave me eventually, that would suck.

    I will try all spells and decide which ones I will keep, even if they do hit my party. I believe Cavalier has extra fire defense, so fireball to his face wouldn't be so bad.

    Is 3 Melee and 3 ranged a good set up? Or maybe drop 1 Melee and get a 4th ranged, a Mage like Xar? Since I killed Minsc's girl, Xar is the only Mage left I think.

    I would change one of the melee to ranged, as you normally don't need more than 2 in close combat and when you get into buildings/tunnels it'll be hard to get everyone in place. I wouldn't get another mage though, i would rather let one of your close combat fighters use a bow.

    Your Cavalier has 20% fire resistance. You can find two rings with 40% fire resistance each and a helm with another 20% fire resistance. So it's possible for you to be immune to your fireballs later on in the game.

    squalltheonly
  • squalltheonlysqualltheonly Member Posts: 40
    Nice, I will keep my eye out for those pieces of gear. Wouldn't it be better to get an archer? That way he comes with bow specialization, cuz then I would have to wait for Dorn and Khalid to level up enough for the next specialization point.

    I think I met an archer earlier.

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686

    Nice, I will keep my eye out for those pieces of gear. Wouldn't it be better to get an archer? That way he comes with bow specialization, cuz then I would have to wait for Dorn and Khalid to level up enough for the next specialization point.

    I think I met an archer earlier.

    Both Kivan (outside high hedge) and Coran (cloakwood) are great archers you can pick up. Khalid CAN work with a bow but if you're putting his proficiency points into longsword then keep him that way. You shouldn't use Dorn as a archer, keep him up front with your cavalier.

  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    edited April 2014
    In BG1 it's always a good idea to have some sort of ranged option on all of your characters. your cavalier could throw Axes or throwing daggers to get around his class restriction. If everyone uses range you can launch a fireball or web into a group of enemies before they close to melee range to avoid hitting your own characters. If they make it to you, your frontline characters can switch to melee and finish them off.

    Regarding good Archer choices, Kivan is a soild pick and can be picked up early. With his high strength score he can use Composite Longbows. You can find him in the high Hedge area just north and east of the Keep. Another good choice for the early game, surprisingly, is Montaron, he is coupled with Xzar in the first area after Candlekeep. If you don't want to have Xzar along you can kill him after he joins your party then remove him from the party, or send him into a house alone and then remove him from the party. Either of these options will remove him but let you keep Montaron. Montaron comes with 2 pips in slings, has a respectable Dex of 17, and has a +1 bonus to hit with slings since he is a halfling. Also, BGEE made it so that you add your strength bonus on damage rolls with slings meaning he has a good number of attacks per round and deals more damage than someone using say, a shortbow. Coran is also a good choice but you cannot reach him until later on in the game when the Cloakwood areas become open to you. He has the highest dexterity of any of the NPC's and more pips in Longbow than he legally should be able to have since he is a multiclass Fighter/Thief. While his strength is low (the lowest of any of the "Warrior" NPC's), meaning he can't use Composite Longbows, he is a better archer than most and makes a good back up rogue, for pick pocketing or setting traps.

    Khalid actually makes a decent archer so putting a few points into a ranged weapon wouldn't be a terrible idea. If you are using him as a sword and shield character I'd suggest giving him points in sling, dart, daggers or axes so you don't have to remove his shield to equip a 2 handed ranged weapon. Keep in mind that Khalid has a fairly low strength, so he cannot carry much, and carrying too many throwing axes or dagger may make him encumbered. Dorn is passable as a ranged character, I'd suggest using Longbows so you can use a Composite Longbow or, if you have too many characters using bows, crossbows.

    Any NPC with an Evil Alignment (so dorn and Edwin in your case) will leave if your reputation score (you can see it on your character sheet) gets to high. Evil characters will leave if your reputation reaches 19 or 20 and Good characters will leave if it reaches 1 or 2. Neutral characters only leave if your reputation drops to 1.

    Honestly, three melee characters is fine, especially since at least one of them is using a two-handed weapon meaning they are attacking with reach. You might find it difficult to be as effective as possible in the tightest of corridors but should otherwise be ok.

    squalltheonlyJuliusBorisov
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,308
    edited April 2014
    There are items (including a certain weapon) that grant an effect called Free Action. Also Branwen should gain a spell that does the same (it's a Level 4 spell, so she'll need to be Level 7 to cast it). These will make characters immune to the effects of Web (one of the best low-level spells in the saga). So one or two immune characters (say Cavalier & Dorn) can wade in and lay the smack down on helpless enemies whilst everyone else rains the pain from distance.

    Edit: Also, look out for a spell called Summon Spiders. These bad boys are innately immune to Web.
    (Obviously this also means that Web won't be effective when fighting against spiders.)

    squalltheonly
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    Of course, that spell requires you to intentionally ask oversized spiders to crawl next to you.
    *Shudders*

    abacusJuliusBorisov
  • mumumomomumumomo Member Posts: 635
    As stated by others mages spells are not meant to deal damage. They should be used for buffs and debuffs

    If you need single target damage, use your fighters. If you need AOE damage, use wands. They are incredibly OP (especially the flame thrower mode of the wand of fire) in BGEE

    As for useful buffs/debuffs spells :
    - level 1 : sleep is OP for the early game (it also affects some stronger monsters like ankheg or sirines)
    - level 2 : web is very OP the whole game> if you cast 2-3 of them, it will hold everything. You can then proceed to kill using either ranged weapons or free action protected fighters
    - level 3 : haste gives a huge boost of damage to your fighters. Slow is a very nice, party-friendly debuff.

  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    You have Imoen in your party, so if she has decent Hide in Shadows and Move Silently then using her as a scout is a good option, or just anyone with stealth or invisibility. If you know what's up ahead you have have your Mage cast any number of nasty spells at them before they see you.

    Glitterdust (level 2 spell) is one of my favorites - it blinds those who fail saves and removes invisibility.

    Slow is also great, as is Confusion. You can also use the spell Greater Malison to lower enemy saving throws to make them more vulnerable to your next spells.

    As people have said, mages and clerics can use blast spells but you often gain more by using Battlefield Control (CC), Buffing or Debuffing. Of course, if you can't be bothered fighting a large group of weak enemies then a Fireball or Skull Trap is fun but it's just going to annoy stronger foes.

    JuliusBorisovsqualltheonly
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    Just a word or two on AOE spells.

    While Web can entangle your party members, you may find that proper placement will significantly improve your combat. Shoot it at a group of enemies and THEN attack. This will effectively stop the counter attack before it starts. When you are attacking yourself, use ranged weapons or combatants that are immune to web (via Free action ring/spell). you limit or destroy your enemies ability to fight you and you will find a much easier time of it.

    Fireball is one of my personal favorites. With that having been said, it isn't necessarily the most powerful spell in your arsenal. It's great for dealing medium damage to a large group but you may find that hold/web/horror and other 'Control' type spells will incapacitate opponents instead of merely softening them up.

    Also, consider summoning spells.

    At the end of the day, the more damage you can prevent from ever happening to your party, the better off you will be. You can always heal, it's true. But if you can prevent the damage, all the better.

    SionIV
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,611
    I don't think anyone has mentioned a tip for safely using AoE spells like Web and Fireball that can cause friendly fire issues.

    Use a toon to scout ahead. A ranger or thief with good stealth does it best, but any character can do it in a pinch.

    The best case scenario is that you can spot mobs before they spot you. Once you know their exact location, you can have Edwin chuck a Web or a Fireball, or both, right on top of them before they know you're there. Your melee fighters can then handle any who escape the initial barrage.

    Otherwise, if they spot your scout and attack, you can have your scout run back and lead the mob into an ambush prepared by your warriors and archers. You might or might not have a chance to hit them with a Fireball safely, but sometimes you can still catch them before they mix it up with your frontliners.

    It requires some practice to get it right - you have to learn to estimate spatially on the screen exactly how big the area of the spell will be when it goes off, and also, how to aim the epicenter of the explosion or Web.

    Cone spells like Color Spray, Aganazzar's Scorcher, and Cone of Cold are harder to use safely - so much so, that I never use them, but some people do. Your mage has to have a clear line of sight to the spell targets, and has to be fairly close, opening himself to attack. And, if any other party members step into that line of sight before the spell goes off, they get zapped along with the enemies.

    Sleep, Confusion, Hold Person, Emotion, and Chaos are always safe, so those are my go-to crowd control spells.

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018

    It requires some practice to get it right - you have to learn to estimate spatially on the screen exactly how big the area of the spell will be when it goes off, and also, how to aim the epicenter of the explosion or Web.

    This is one thing I like about ToEE over BG, the fact that you can calculate exactly where the spells land.

    FinneousPJjackjack
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