Advice on BGEE vs. Tutu/Trilogy for a guy returning to the series after long hiatus

BGLover1981 · April 2014

Due to various life circumstances, I have been away from BG and gaming in general for a couple of years. Before that, I had toyed around with mods (mainly Tutu), but just a little. I was behind the curve even then! Anyway, I'll soon be installing and playing BG1 and 2 again, but I'm trying to figure out whether to get the EE versions or stick with my old CD's and just mod them once again. Have plenty of mods been updated for the EE versions? I've looked at plenty of discussions about the whole "EE vs. Tutu/Trilogy" debate, but most of them are dated, and I'm just hunting for an update on the discussion. Thanks!

FinneousPJ · April 2014

Well, I'm one who can't bother setting up the legacy games anymore with EEs available. I can greatly recommend them.

SionIV · April 2014

I used to only play BGT but that was because BG2EE wasn't released yet. Now when it's out there really isn't any reason not to play it unless you really dislike the content BGEE added (NPC's, items) or have some rare mod that won't work with it.

Corvino · April 2014

The Enhanced Editions have made various changes to the UI which I prefer to the older games - it makes playing on a modern high-res widescreen monitor a lot easier on the eyes than the originals.

There are quite a lot of mods available for BG:EE including the ever-popular SCS, I'm not sure about BG1NPC though.

jackjack · April 2014

I will point out that BGEE is much further along than BG2EE in terms of bugs. There is a 1.3 patch for BGEE in beta testing, which includes over 200 fixes. BG2EE patch will likely come afterward, but honestly, it needs it more - I have put off playing it for the time being.
Mods
The BG1NPC project is currently alpha-compatible and being worked on daily - I'm using it for the first time in my current run and can't believe what I've been missing.
Ascension is compatible with BG2EE, but only if you install it with the Big Picture mod - the standalone Ascension mod has not yet been updated, though I do believe work is ongoing.
Rogue Rebalancing is working wonderfully. Not sure about other mods, as those are the only ones I use.
Oh, also, SCS is compatible as well.

BelgarathMTH · April 2014

Another of the most popular mods - Tweaks - is now fully compatible.

FinneousPJ · April 2014

@jackjack What's the problem with BG2EE? I have finished it twice already.

Erg · April 2014

I own the original games (both on discs and the GOG version) and BG:EE. I didn't buy BG2:EE yet (nor I intend to buy it any time soon).

Based on my experience, I would recommend the enhanced edition only to new players or to old players with modphobia.

There are several reasons why I prefer the original games (of course heavily modded), over the enhanced edition, but these are the main ones:

1) lots of mods are still not available for the enhanced edition, and not just the rare ones, unless you consider rare mods like Level 1 NPCs or Finch. Besides, most popular mods (e.g. BG1 NPC Project) are still officially in alpha or beta for the enhanced edition, making the game even more buggier than already is. Other popular mods officially released with full EE compatibility, like BG2Tweaks, work flawlessly with the original games, but are still rather buggy with the enhanced edition.

2) the enhanced edition is still full of bugs, especially BG2:EE.

3) incorporating some mods by default in the enhanced edition (e.g. 1PP) was imho a big mistake because you are not allowed anymore to choose which components to install (e.g. when I install 1PP in BG1Tutu I can customise the appearances of armours, helmets and shields by selecting among several styles; in BG:EE you are stuck with Beamdog/Overhaul choices).

More importantly with the original games you can play

1) BG1 with the BG1 engine (pure vanilla)
2) BG1 with the BG2 engine as a separate game (BG1Tutu)
3) BG1 and BG2 with the BG2 engine as a single game (BGT)

with the Enhanced Edition you are stuck with option (2) only.

4) (personal taste) I personally dislike most of the arbitrary changes made to the game. Some of these changes are big and severely affect game balance, others are just minor annoyances, like the new awful inventory icons (introduced in BG:EE by the patch 1.2 if I'm not mistaken).

5) (personal taste) I like the spawning system of BG1tutu much more than the (weak) spawning system of BG:EE and/or vanilla.

jackjack · April 2014

FinneousPJ said:
@jackjack What's the problem with BG2EE? I have finished it twice already.

Right, it's obviously not unplayable. But the new content is buggy.
I do think @Erg is exaggerating quite a bit, however.

the_spyder · April 2014

for me, you have to ask yourself several questions.

1. Is money a concern? BG:EE isn't very expensive, but if you don't have the money to spend, it becomes a no brainer that you don't want to spend it. If you have the money, i think it is worth while.

2. Do you mind being slaved to the original CDs? This is a small concern, but I hate having to fish out my originals every time I want to play. with EE, no CD in the drive.

3. Do you mind fiddling around with Tutu and the mods? It isn't tough to do, but it can be cumbersome to install Tutu and BG and all of the other mods that you play. It's a small, but sometimes it is the small things that move the mountain.

4. How interested are you in the new content, specifically the new NPCs and their quest lines? Dorn and Neera are both interesting characters, as is Baeloth (I haven't played with Raasad enough to know how good or otherwise he is). And Hexat is in BG2:EE. I am not aware of any MOD that introduces them into Tutu. That alone made it worth while for me.

5. While it is true that there are new bugs in the mix, some of the old bugs are now quashed. I'd say on the whole more bugs have been quashed than have been created. But that is subjective and based on personal experience. And the UI and updates are quite nice (or some of them are anyway).

Based on your answers to the above, you should have a better idea of if it is worth it. It's BG. How bad can it be? So long as you are playing and enjoying it.

Quartz · April 2014

TuTu is the spawn of Satan.

SionIV · April 2014

Tutu was more stable but BGT was better in my opinion.

The one thing that BGT does much better than BGEE is carry over the NPC's you have with you.

Give your wisdom tomes to Jaheira? She'll have them in BG2.

Give Minsc ** in Spear? He'll have them in BG2.

They will have the same experience they had in BG1, the same kills in information, same proficiency, stats and everything else.

Erg · April 2014

Quartz said:
TuTu is the spawn of Satan.

SionIV said:
Tutu was more stable but BGT was better in my opinion.

That's why the original game is better: @Quartz can play vanilla, @SionIV can play BGT and I can play Tutu and everyone is happy.

With the enhanced edition, you have no choice, because Beamdog/Overhaul has chosen for you and there is no Tutu or BGT or vanilla mod for the EE.

Twani · April 2014

For BGEE, I'd say buy it over Tutu/BGT (personally, I'm a Tutu fan). The new characters and their side quests are interesting, and work on BG1NPC is going fast. The only mod you'll really be missing is BG1 Unfinished Business (which has people working on it), and then perhaps Gavin (which has it's owner working on it), Finch, and Indri or whatever her name is.

BG2EE is more of a 'hm', because of the bugs.

SionIV · April 2014

Erg said:

Quartz said:
TuTu is the spawn of Satan.

SionIV said:
Tutu was more stable but BGT was better in my opinion.
That's why the original game is better: @Quartz can play vanilla, @SionIV can play BGT and I can play Tutu and everyone is happy.

With the enhanced edition, you have no choice, because Beamdog/Overhaul has chosen for you and there is no Tutu or BGT or vanilla mod for the EE.

The only dislike i have for BGEE are the new NPC's and the content that follow with them. If someone could make a mod that would remove them and the additional content, i would be in love.

Blackraven · April 2014

I think Beamdog has done a great job with the EE versions of the game (or at least BG1EE, I don't own a copy of BG2EE yet, so can't give an opinion there). And I also really appreciate the effort they put into the extra NPCs and the new kits.

I'd only stick to Tutu or BGT if you're really interested in a number of specific (niche) mods.

Gotural · April 2014

There are still some bugs in my BG2:EE game but the first one now runs flawlessly.

I know I will never came back seriously to BG1, I'm now too attached to the new render and High Def of the EE, it is just ... some kind of feeling ... it feels better when I play BG:EE than the original.

For BG2:EE I don't know, there are some bugs and some mods still don't work but for me BG:EE is a no brainer !

Twani · April 2014

Oh, I suppose I should say, if you play female characters, like romances and are modphobic, get BG2EE. As only Anomen is a sad, sad case in 2014.

the_spyder · April 2014

Quartz said:
TuTu is the spawn of Satin.

Fixed that for you.

Quartz · April 2014

SionIV said:

Erg said:

Quartz said:
TuTu is the spawn of Satan.

SionIV said:
Tutu was more stable but BGT was better in my opinion.
That's why the original game is better: @Quartz can play vanilla, @SionIV can play BGT and I can play Tutu and everyone is happy.

With the enhanced edition, you have no choice, because Beamdog/Overhaul has chosen for you and there is no Tutu or BGT or vanilla mod for the EE.
The only dislike i have for BGEE are the new NPC's and the content that follow with them. If someone could make a mod that would remove them and the additional content, i would be in love.

Totally agreed @SionIV. I mean there are a few odds and ends that I don't appreciate (BGII sprites), but yeah. BG:EE is pretty stable in my experience and I like the improvements.

CoM_Solaufein · April 2014

The EE games are the future. The old games are obsolete. I won't be doing any more modding with the older games, only EE from now on.

BGLover1981 · April 2014

Thanks to everyone for the comments. The consensus seems to be that BG1EE is pretty well patched and modded (or very soon to be), but BG2EE is still somewhat buggy with less updated mods. Is it possible to export a character from BG1EE into a regular (although modded) BG2 game?

Erg · April 2014

BGLover1981 said:
Thanks to everyone for the comments. The consensus seems to be that BG1EE is pretty well patched and modded (or very soon to be), but BG2EE is still somewhat buggy with less updated mods. Is it possible to export a character from BG1EE into a regular (although modded) BG2 game?

To clarify, BG2:EE has currently more bugs than BG1:EE, but there are more mods available for BG2:EE than BG1:EE (simply because it easier to make BG2 mods compatible with the EE than Tutu or BGT mods). If you do not need mods like Finch, Indira, BG1 Unfinished Businesses and if you are not concerned about other mods, like BG1 NPC project, being still in alpha, go ahead and get at least BG1:EE.

It should be possible to import a character from BG1:EE to BG2, but only if you do not use any of the new kits introduced in the EE (Blackguard, Shadowdancer, etc.). However, I don't usually bother importing, as I prefer to simply duplicate the character with NearInfinity.

CrevsDaak · April 2014

Erg said:
However, I don't usually bother importing, as I prefer to simply duplicate the character with NearInfinity.

So you can make a mistake and put 19 instead of 9 :P in your stats.
Also, most users don't know/don't care about using NI, maybe EEKeeper/Shadowkeeper (which does the same thing but with less flavors).

lunar · April 2014

Once I have experienced enhanced editions, I can never return to vanilla game or bgt. It feels so dated and clunky when compared to the beauty of enhanced editions. Plus I have both games on Ipad and have some mods installed on the Ipad too! I can play modded bg1+bg2 with very good graphics, zooming in and out function, instant loading times, new contents like ee npcs and black pits1&2 , all on my Ipad, comfortable to carry and play everywhere! What more can I ask for? Bg:ee games deserve every penny I have spent on them and kudos to the developers for their hard work.

iuventas · April 2014

Right now I'm jealous and grumpy, and playing TuTu in two languages at once - but honestly, if I had money I'd buy EEs without so much as a blink of an eye. Even though I don't need it, it would be out of respect to the developers who brought old players back and even gained new ones.
BG is a fifteen years old game and suddenly got a new life, gotta appreciate this.

elminster · April 2014

Meh I'm not big on some of the changes (charm and entangle spells) but the original game is full of so many hidden bugs that I just can't play it. Like many monsters in the game being improperly coded so that spells don't work against them (to use one example every gibberling in the game is coded as a human).

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1404/bg1-bg2-bug-gibberling-race-errors-0709

I'm also not a fan of the UI for the original BG1 or BG2 anymore. Both seem too dated for my tastes.

So while I'd say BGEE isn't perfect by any means its still in better shape than BG1. So I'd buy it. BG2EE is kind of a mess at the moment. So if you don't finish BGEE quickly then you might want to wait on that. No idea when a patch is coming out for that and frankly its been way, way, way too long since one came out.

Erg · April 2014

elminster said:
Meh I'm not big on some of the changes (charm and entangle spells) but the original game is full of so many hidden bugs that I just can't play it. Like many monsters in the game being improperly coded so that spells don't work against them (to use one example every gibberling in the game is coded as a human).

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1404/bg1-bg2-bug-gibberling-race-errors-0709

Its not the only example. There were all sorts of alignment and racial inconsistencies and bugs. You can find an extensive list on that here (you'll need MS word or a similar program to view them).

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1283/creature-corrections-0824

For most characters these kinds of things don't matter much but for Rangers they do because of their impact on the effectiveness of their racial enemy bonus.

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1230/bg1-bug-ranger-racial-enemy-effect-not-effective/p1

There were other NPC (joinable and not joinable) specific issues.

Ithmeera could actually be physically found in a table...which I suppose would be kind of an awkward life.

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1166/bg1-bug-ithmeera-stuck-in-a-table

Yeslick would not stop yapping about how you didn't flood the mines.

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/13075/bug-yeslick-still-loopy

If you choose the wrong dialog with Tremain it could crash your game.

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/251/tremain-dialog-crash

Along with more general issues.

Thieves would walk into traps after you tell them to disarm them.

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1866/bg1-trap-disarm-pathfinding-fix

Guards being summoned when you steal from containers where there is nobody around to see.

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1161/bug-guard-spawns-via-trapped-containers-0824

There were many spell descriptions in the original that were not accurately reflecting what the spell actually does (blindness being one example).

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1146/bg1-bg2-bug-spells-blindness-spwi106-spl-description-is-inaccurate

There were other probably better known issues like the house in the City of Baldur's Gate where entering it would crash the game.

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/247/ar0700-house-crash

And a bug where patrons legs wouldn't show up (or they wouldn't be properly coloured).

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/44337/

As well as a whole slew of other bugs (just a few examples).

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/387/bg1-bug-invisible-container-in-ar2012

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/275/bg1-bug-thief-scimitar-fix

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1477/bg1-bg2-bug-oil-of-fiery-burning

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1292/bg1-bug-albert-and-rufie-reward-failure

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1762/bg1-game-crashes-when-paperdoll-equipping-unsupported-item-type

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/272/bg1-bug-gorpel-hind-s-merry-fools-can-attack-the-pc-multiple-times

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1654/bg1-bug-male-merchant-league-guards-voice

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1417/bgee-bg1-bug-durlag-dungeon-level-two-wardens-0813

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1277/bg1-bug-slave-or-prisoner

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/279/bg1-bug-greenstone-amulet-missing-advertised-protections

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/2774/bg1-bgee-spiritual-hammer-inconsistency-0813

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/357/bg1-bug-fuller-s-extra-dialogue-0813

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1180/bg1-bug-stealing-from-shopkeepers-0824/p1

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/2321/bg1-bg2-str-bonus-applied-to-arrow-damage

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/793/bg1-bug-minsc-charm-animal-works-on-people-0813

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/3140/bg1-bug-skie-plays-the-wrong-soundfile-when-expressing-approval

I'm also not a fan of the UI for the original BG1 or BG2 anymore. Both seem too dated for my tastes.

So while I'd say BGEE isn't perfect by any means its still in better shape than BG1. So I'd buy it. BG2EE is kind of a mess at the moment. So if you don't finish BGEE quickly then you might want to wait on that. No idea when a patch is coming out for that and frankly its been way, way, way too long since one came out.

@elminster most of these bugs have been fixed ages ago by Baldurdash and/or the various Fixpacks (especially the important ones, like the house crash in area AR0700). The ones that still aren't (like the gibberling race) are so insignificant that it's not surprising they remained hidden for so long

If someone is still playing the original games without fixpacks, he/she clearly deserves all these bugs

Edit: your list of bugs contains mistakes in his own. For instance the Yeslick dialogue loop is a bug the was (is?) present in the enhanced edition and not in the original games.

Blackraven · April 2014

I find it remarkable to see that most people responding here are pretty outspoken. I am not. I can go back and forth between BGEE and BGT without having a strong preference for one or the other. The support I expressed before for BGEE is based rather on Beamdog's effort of polishing the original game and reviving it for a new generation, and on the prospect of BG3EE. But compared with BGT (with a couple of mods) the differences are minor IMO and don't really influence my gaming experience.
Last year I played quite a lot of BGEE. Since I haven't got BG2EE yet and I do want to play BG2, I've returned to BGT. Surely I'll buy BG2EE at some point, and I'll return to playing EE again (probably with a number of good mods that by that tim will be available). No problem.

elminster · April 2014

Certainly a number of them were fixed in either baldurdash or the fixpack, but a lot of them weren't (the creature files for instance, thieves walking into traps because of poor pathfinding, and the greenstone amulet not giving all the protections its supposed to - which was fixed in easytutu). I wouldn't be surprised at some point if someone had noticed an issue with the creature files but it would have been a big job to identify and then go through and fix all of them.

As for Yeslick he has had that dialogue bug since the original games

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.games.baldurs-gate/0_RFeTuWfyE (really old link from 1999 that shows it was around then)

It was addressed by the dudleyville fixpack but I think even then it still had some issues.

Either way I'd recommend BGEE for a new player or to someone who hasn't played the games in awhile. The UI has been improved, including in terms of explaining better what in the game is going on, and you get things like the roll counter. You also get stuff like the feature that lets your tab key show you which chests/containers are locked, and (if you buy from beamdog and apply for the beta) an indicator for which scrolls/spells you already know. Overall I'd say its just an easier setup for new players or people who are coming back to the game after an extended hiatus.

BGLover1981 · April 2014

Can someone summarize the differences in graphics between EE and original? (I am not referring to the ability to zoom--I don't consider this much of a perk.) The screenshots I've seen don't make BGEE look much different from what I remember BG+Tutu looking like, but maybe my memory is off.

Advice on BGEE vs. Tutu/Trilogy for a guy returning to the series after long hiatus

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