DnD half-Elf/Half-Orc.
SionIV
Member Posts: 2,689
How does it work in DnD with half-Elfs and Half-Orcs?
Is it possible to have only a bit of elfish blood in you? What about when it comes to physical traits? Do some half-elfs look more like elves while others human?
Would it be possible for a Half-Orc to look enough human that people would have a hard time noticing it?
Would it be possible for a Half-Elf to have 'normal' ears?
What would the son/daughter of a Half-Elf and human look like?
I'm thinking a bit in the lines of Lionheart (I did enjoy that game) where certain 'traits' would let you pass of as a human while others would mark you a half-blood.
Is it possible to have only a bit of elfish blood in you? What about when it comes to physical traits? Do some half-elfs look more like elves while others human?
Would it be possible for a Half-Orc to look enough human that people would have a hard time noticing it?
Would it be possible for a Half-Elf to have 'normal' ears?
What would the son/daughter of a Half-Elf and human look like?
I'm thinking a bit in the lines of Lionheart (I did enjoy that game) where certain 'traits' would let you pass of as a human while others would mark you a half-blood.
1
Comments
What I would consider improbable however, is that the half-elf has nothing that reminds of the elven parent whatsoever.
Same with Half-Orcs.
Basically the same as what happens when different human phenotypes mix.
Not sure if this is canon, or my 'head' canon though. @jacobtan?
In order for a character to be a half-elf or half-orc, one of the main parents (father or mother) must be from the said pure race. Thus, the love child of a half elf and human will be considered human in game terms, human blood is more dominant and said childs elvish blood will be too thinned to qualify even as a part-elf. Said child is a great incentive for roleplaying liking elvish traditions and occupations though. Likewise, the lovechild of an elf and half-elf will be a half-elf, can never be considered a pure elf, for %100 pure elf blood is required for a child to become a full elf. Only two elvish parents can produce a pure elf child.
So elf+elf=elf, human+elf=half-elf, half-elf+elf=half-elf, half-elf+human=human abeit with a drop of elvish blood (no bonus for game mechanics, just for rping) same goes for orcish lineage, I give the example from elves as it is much more pleasing to think about.
Also in Pathfinder, Half-Humans such as Half-Elves and Orcs also count as both their parent races for any and every effect related to race, as added to the FAQ after one of my inflamatory threads brought some interesting facts to the table; a half-human is able to take feats, favored class bonuses, archetypes (class kits), classes, items, spells, et cetera as if they were a member of both their parent races (in Pathfinder both Elves and Orcs are playable races), however, this is also a bit of a double-edged sword, since they are also affected by effects related to either parent species, such as a Ranger's Racism.
Of course, in Pathfinder both Half-Elves and Half-Orcs heavily lean towards their Human side in both appearance and mechanics, so much that they are (with the newest errata), able to pass as that race without making disguise checks, since only the subtype is taken into consideration for in-game mechanics.
But officially any individual will be only "half" or all of any racial make-up. I played with one DM who designed quarter and three-quarter variations for his world, but that's completely non-standard.
Would that be a Half Halfling or a Half - Elf? *ponders*
Same for a elf/orc. Would it be large like an orc or thin like an elf?
Here's for you. I doubt it will lay the argument to rest since it's fashionable for players to flout the rules, but this is what the 2E Players' Handbook says (no 3E for me thanks! XD)
--------
1) Anyone with both elven and human ancestors is either a human or a half-elf (elves only have elven ancestors).
2) If there are more human ancestors than elven, the person is human, if there are equal numbers or more elven, the person is half-elven.
--------
Basically, this means once there is some "non-elven blood" in a bloodline, offspring can never be full-blooded elves short of magical or divine intervention. There is also a "point of no return" where the elven blood is so watered down that offspring cannot even be considered as half-elven anymore (e.g. the Seven Sisters have a human father and a half-elf mother, but barring Qilue, they are all counted as human).
@lunar
I concur with your summary "elf+elf=elf, human+elf=half-elf, half-elf+elf=half-elf, half-elf+human=human"
So a human and a half-elf can have half-elven children as long as the half-elven parent was the child of an elf.
I played a Half Orc at one point where the party didn't know his Orc heritage. It was quite fun, except the DM kept on using it against me. Eventually I broke down and told the party.
The 1E Drow series ("D" series modules I believe) introduced characters who were half human/half Drow; or half Drow/half surface elf. That could get interesting...
Haha... Found it - they are mentioned in passing on the 3.0 Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, page 16, unnder the same header as normal Half-Elves.
Transcription:
"Drow half-elves tend to have dusky skin, silver or white hair, and human eye colors. (They have 60-foot darkvision, but they do not gain any other drow traits.)"
So no, they do not give up low-light vision, and are therefore better than Half-Elves in every manner possible, which is not saying much, since they are still the suckiest race of that edition.
In the Players' Handbook, it is said that "half-elves are usually much like their elven parents in appearance". But the game mechanics paint a more nuanced picture. I enclose the "minimum race stats" for elves and half-elves as described in Players' Handbook, before modifiers are applied. The minimum and maximum for humans are taken to be 3 and 18 respectively, without modifiers. These figures may also be derived in-game if you reduce all stats to minimum at character creation, though minimums may also be affected by choice of classes. (Note: 3/18 means min 3, max 18)
HUMAN ELF HALF-ELF
------- --- ---------
Str 3/18 3/18 3/18
Dex 3/18 6/18 6/18
Con 3/18 7/18 6/18
Int 3/18 8/18 4/18
Wis 3/18 3/18 3/18
Cha 3/18 8/18 3/18
It is not described in the Players' Handbook, but you can infer:
Str - although humans are larger, human ancestry does not really help a half-elf in strength
Dex - elven ancestry seems to help the half-elf in allowing him a higher min dexterity
Con - elves are restricted from a modified Con score of 18, but they are reasonably sturdy in that the min Con is actually quite a bit higher than a human's min Con. Their good health modifies the half-elf's min Con too.
Int - elves are naturally smart, and it seems to spill over to help the half-elf
Wis - if Wis is a function of life experience, then all races have their dumb kids
Cha - elves are naturally charismatic, but half-elves do not have a higher min Cha, unlike the case for Dex, Con and Int. Probably means the natural elven charisma cannot mitigate the most uncharismatic traits of humans
The last point is of greater interest to our discussion. If elves are naturally good looking and charismatic, but you can still have an awesomely f*gly half-elf with a Cha of 3 which is on par with the f*gliest humans, it probably means a character can still inherit the worst of elven features, or he can inherit the worst of human features and his elven ancestry cannot help at all
@Loub, Half-Drow are statted out in Races of Faerun which states: Half-Drow have all the listed half-elven racial traits listed in the player's handbook, except as follows: Darkvision 60 feet, Drow Blood: For all special abilities and effects a Half-Drow is considered a Drow.
I think from that it is safe to assume that a Half-Drow gives up the Low-Light Vision trait for Darkvision 60 feet, and Elf Blood for Drow Blood. Two major factors that contribute to why I've come to this conclusion are that Drow do not have Low-Light Vision nor do humans, so the offspring of a Drow and Human wouldn't recieve it, and a half drow/half human wouldn't be considered a Drow and a regular Elf since he has no elven (non-drow) parents.
It should state that these traits replace Low-Light Vision and Elf Blood to clear up any confusion. In my copy it doesn't, perhaps it has been errata'd, but I think the intent was what I assume.
Drow were originally created from the Norse Mythology Dark elves that were cruel and ugly in appearance to such a degree that they instilled nightmares.
This is an artist's depiction of a Norse Dark Elf, sitting on the chest of a sleeping 'victim'.
To take it one more step, the concept was probably altered to prevent issues, but the basic premise of them being cruel in appearance and ugly in the extreme was kept.
Anyway, this discussion also includes half-orcs. I don't remember reading much of "half-orc culture". It seems that half-orcs are more inclined towards orcish behavior as they inherit the evil and violent streak of orcs. Assuming that orcish genes are dominant, it is possible that orcish features in half-orcs will always be present such that they cannot pass off convincingly as humans under any circumstance, unlike the case for half-elves who can somewhat conceal elven features like pointed ears.
Probably a physiological thing, just like brown bears and polar bears can mate to produce hybrids, but polar bears and black bears cannot.
And I guess only humans are dumb or drunk enough to be in a compromising situation with orcs...