Thoughts on a 4 man party?

Lil2Wkd

For my Dart Girl playthrough of BGEE, I ran a 4 man of Charname, Imoen, Branwen, and Ajantis. I'd like to do something similar for BGEE2, including some of the harder optional bosses and Watcher's Keep. Currently I'm thinking:
Charname-Assassin 6/Fighter, ***** in Darts, then a steady increase in Quarterstaff for Staff of the Ram, all points in traps.
Mazzy-something with swords
Anomen-healing at first, then becoming an awesome battle cleric late game with Crom Faeyr
Jan-find traps/Unlock chests, arcane goodness


Does this sound kind of feasible to get through to ToB and make my way through the keep? I know Keldorn is probably better if I don't mind him having the Dex. Gauntlets, but it really want to use Mazzy, and I know Imoen is technically THE thief/Mage, but she annoys me. My main reason for going with a party of 4 is I want to try and hit the higher levels.

jackjack

You might find yourself lacking in arcane power at some point. Jan is basically half a Mage, though he will get HLAs, (eventually). Consider picking up any of the NPC mages as your 5th member.

Quartz

Four-man parties are badass. But I agree with jackjack.

jackjack

Yeah, I love running four-man parties. You just need a little bit better connection to The Weave, is all.

mumumomo

For your fighter slot, As you stated, mazzy is not the optimal choice. Keldorn is indeed a much better choice (for mechanical purpose at least).

For the caster/thief I believe that Jan is a better choice than imoen, especially in a small group (where he will reach level 9 spells quite early). :
- traps HLA are OP
- illusionist kit makes him almost as good in spellcasting as her.

For the divine caster, i think jaheira is better :
- she is a late bloomer but it won't matter too much in a small party
- at higher levels she is a much better fighter than anomen (HLA, iron skin)
- insect plague will help a lot against casters and this is one of your weak point (having just 1 arcane caster and no keldorn)

Anyway your group is very solid and should encounter no big problemeven though jan will solo most of TOB (traps, mage HLA).

Lil2Wkd

Solid is good, I'm hoping to circumvent the issues with lots of casters thanks to Crimson Dart/Poison Weapon, though I think Keldorn is only gonna till I pick Mazzy up.

Ballad

I believe 4 people is the ideal party setup from a powergaming standpoint. You can devote so much more time to micromanaging each of your party members, you level up much faster, plus you really get all the skills you need with 4 people. If I wasn't such a sucker for NPC interactions and lore, I would always play 4-man.

Also, I would honorably disagree with @jackjack; from my experience, you do not need a single class mage - especially in a party of 4 - unless you really want to get powerful fast. I recently finished a low-level playthrough of Watcher's Keep with SCS installed and during the whole run, I only had Aerie to cater to my arcane needs. Naturally, it depends on your personal playstyle and preferences. I myself tend to favor tanking power over arcane prowess, but that's just me.

As for your other party members, I would personally choose Keldorn over Mazzy for his anti-magic abilities (not to mention personal preferences.) This would also give Jan more spell slots to spend on enhancements, illusions and offensive spells.

edit: bugger, I totally overlooked the bit about you really wanting to use Mazzy. Next time, I'll try to read more thoroughly before posting.

Quartz

Ballad said:

I believe 4 people is the ideal party setup from a powergaming standpoint. You can devote so much more time to micromanaging each of your party members, you level up much faster, plus you really get all the skills you need with 4 people. If I wasn't such a sucker for NPC interactions and lore, I would always play 4-man.

100% agreed.

jackjack

@Ballad‌
I don't see the need for a pure class mage either - I would recommend Aerie, if not as a fifth party member, then as a replacement for either Mazzy or Anomen. That will give you your damage dealer, tank, caster, and thief; a well-balanced four person group with enough divine magic to get you through.

element

ye I second aerie she is invaluable in limited parties

Freche

Meh, spending all points in traps and you can pick whatever party members you like. If any encounter becomes too hard you can quickly cheese past them, especially with a four man party where you will get spike traps much faster (which is the ultimate cheese skill).

Lil2Wkd

Having used Keldorn for a bit, I now totally understand why he is preferred over Mazzy-who is now joining my Bounty Hunter solo run. I've now also discovered that both Keldorn and Anomen have truly shocking dexterity, and with only one Belt of Dexterity to go round, I'm reloading to a previous save (20 days game time previous) and running as my party:
Charname - Assassin/Fighter (GM Darts and Poison Weapon)
Keldorn - Tank
Jaheira - Priest (will get Crom Faeyr)
Jan - Illusionist/Thief

I did contemplate Aerie, but she's just too darn squishy, even with Ghost Armor.

mumumomo

hehe, you cannot go wrong with keldorn/jaheira/jan. Probably the most powerful NPC combo in the game.

Aristillius

You are gonna edit Jaheira to cleric? Since, as a druid she cannot use Crom.
Other than that, I agree that Keldorn is more useful in your setup - even if I think Mazzy is a cooler NPC (actually excellent DPS too, she just lacks dispel magic/true sight).

Quartz

Lil2Wkd said:

Jaheira - Priest (will get Crom Faeyr)

Aristillius said:

You are gonna edit Jaheira to cleric? Since, as a druid she cannot use Crom.

elminster

Lil2Wkd said:

Jaheira - Priest (will get Crom Faeyr)

As others have pointed out normally its not possible to have Jaheira use Crom Faeyr.

Put the two files in this rar file in your override folder and she can get up to specialisation in warhammers. She will also be able to use Crom Faeyr. This will only let her use Crom Faeyr, no other warhammers (though you can expand this yourself fairly easily by using Near Infinity).

mumumomo

Not being able to use CF is not a really big deal when you can use scimitars (belm, spectral brand) and the staff of the ram.
She will anyway be a better fighter than anomen at higher levels thanks to HLA and iron skin.

And druids have a much better high level spell selection than clerics

Lil2Wkd

Unfortunately I can't fiddle about with stuff on ios due to absence of a decent PC right now, but looks like it's gonna be gung-ho scimitars for the win, with Dart Girl running Staff of the Ram as backup

simples

i always felt like jaheira was a crap fighter despite the hla's she got. it seemed she never hit or killed anything. maybe i just wasn't paying attention to the rolls? i primarily used her for her brilliant druid spells.

Quartz

@simples Did you give her a Strength belt? If not, there's why, her natural Strength is a lowly 15 ... If so, I dunno what the problem is.

simples

i think everyone had strength belts toward the end of tob? i always use her for sentimental reasons and, as stated before, druid spells (love them)

elminster

simples said:

i always felt like jaheira was a crap fighter despite the hla's she got. it seemed she never hit or killed anything. maybe i just wasn't paying attention to the rolls? i primarily used her for her brilliant druid spells.

Get Critical Strike. She can have 9-10 APR while using it (if you are using Belm in the offhand and optionally the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Weapon Specialization) and because of it every one of her attacks will hit.

mumumomo

Jaheira's limitation in term of fighting capability compared to a pure fighter are :
- lower PIP progression. This one is an issue for quite a long time since she needs to put 2 PIPS in scimitars and 2 PIPs and dual wielding to be really efficient.
- lower THACO progession.
- weapon selection. Druid weapon selection is weaker than standard fighter. It's not really a problem though since scimitars are IMO the best weapon class in SOA thanks to belm/usuno. In TOB, staff of the ram is the most damaging weapon in the game.
- lack of grand mastery (=0.5 APR, 2 THACO, 3 damage). The thing is that there is very few pure fighters (korgan, sarevok, mazzy) and i don't think anybody will say that keldorn is a weak fighter.
- poor strength. Once again, she is not alone there. Keldorn and valygar have 17 and they are competent fighters because it is easily correctable with strength enhancing items. Also, her other fighting stats are great

IMO her only significant issues are the first 2, which anyway disappear at higher level. This is why i consider her to be a late bloomer. This is not really a big issue in a 4-man group though.

At higher level she will be capable of 9-10 APR, with critical strike (like any pure fighter type) which is anyway enough to obliterate anything which is not magically protected.

Lil2Wkd

Random update on this... I was a tiny bit gutted that Jaheira didn't get access to Lesser Restoration, I can count on one hand the amount of times I've had to use scrolls. I've done the majority of the quests in chapter two now, and have spent the past few days cursing my way through the Maze level of Watcher's Keep. Current levels and equipment are:
Charname: Assassin 6 Fighter 17, Crimson Dart/Staff of Rynn
Keldorn: Inquisitor 15, Carsomyr
Jaheira: Fighter 12 Druid 13, Spectral Brand
Jan: Illusionist 12 Thief 14, Firetooth backed up the wands that cast Breach, and Summons.

I don't know about being THE best 4 man (I'd think that would probably be an evil party combo) but I really can't complain at all. I'm going to try and get down as far as Staff of the Ram, grab the Ioun Stone from the Graveyard, then make my way to Spellhold

Balrog99

Assuming your assassin maxed out on stealth I'd have been sorely tempted to take Valygar instead of Keldorn for the sneaky backstab potential. Jaheira wouldn't fit in then but you could take Aerie with invisibility as a substitute. I know in practice it's not as good as it seems like it should be, but sneaky is kind of cool!

mumumomo

At level 6, his assassin is certainly not maxed on stealth. The best bet would rather be to use the scarce skill points to find traps (if sole thief) or set traps.

Regarding the best 4-man party question : the evil party would feature dorn for keldorn which i consider equivalent (maybe small advantage to dorn). However viconia cannot really compare to jaheira mechanically (multi >> single).