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where are the NPC interractions?

mumumomomumumomo Member Posts: 635
in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
As some may know, i play only solo-no reload

For once i decided to play seriously a group run - no reload

It's a refreshing change and going smoothly so far (just killed mulahey, every being level 3 or so)

But the thing is i don't see any kind of banters or interractions that people keep praising group play for.
I barely see a few lines of comment to some actions (rep gain, death of 1 NPC). Nothing that i find really exciting.

For the record i have jaheira/khalid and imoen in my group (+ sorc CHARNAME)

Am i missing something? is it a bg2 only thing?

Comments

  • mumumomomumumomo Member Posts: 635
    Thanks for the answers
    Maybe i will kill khalid again (this time on purpose) to get Rasaad (although he is really bad in BGEE).

    In BG2EE my plan was to get :
    - sorc CHARNAME (male)
    - Jaheira (romance)
    - Jan
    - Keldorn

    I reckon this is one the most powerful group mechanically speaking, but how will it work interraction wise?

    The thing is :
    - i don't want to get more than 4 NPC. It's clumsy enough for me and i think i could not bear to have 6
    - i need a thief so it's either Jan or Imoen. My gameplay preference goes to Jan and i've read that he is better interaction-wise than Imoen.
    - For the last 2 spots, i would like a romance interest and a divine caster.

    This seriously limits my choice. I would prefer to keep Jaheira (Viconia is romanceable and a divine caster but she is evil and mechanically a lot less powerful than Jaheira)

    So it would be mainly replacing Keldorn by another fighter type (Minsc, Valygar, Rasaad, Mazzy), which would also result in a big mechanical loss.

    Should i stick to my plan? Or some other combination can be more or less equally powerful and more rewarding interraction-wise?
  • elementelement Member Posts: 833
    well between soa and the start of TOB imoen wont speak to anyone in your party so if your looking for interaction Jan is definitely the pick.

    for your fighter u cant go wrong really
  • mumumomomumumomo Member Posts: 635
    I really wanted this run to succeed but really i cannot bear group play.

    The characters are so weak, it's so clumsy and random.
    Everything was ok until the mage in the bandit camp.
    He casts horror and its game over if i get unlucky saving throw.
    In solo i just use ghe greenstone amulet and proceed to slaughter them.
  • ZyzzogetonZyzzogeton Member Posts: 526
    Potion of Clarity helps.
  • mumumomomumumomo Member Posts: 635
    Sure but potion of clarifty protects one character.
    That's always my problem with group : you cannot make everyone immune.
    In that case, if i had a cleric with remove fear it would be ok. But unfortunately i don't.

    I've tried the fight several times and my success ratio is maybe 3/6.
    With a solo sorc having done the same quests (level 5) my success rate would be 100%.
    This confirms what i already knew : solo is much easier than group.
  • ZyzzogetonZyzzogeton Member Posts: 526
    edited May 2014
    Solo with certain classes has always been easier, Sorc being one of them.

    Also with two characters I'd assume you can have one run around drawing attacks while your Sorc piles Sleep after Sleep

    Edit: auto(in)correct
    Post edited by Zyzzogeton on
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited May 2014
    You could use the potion of clarity on one character and move them into the tent. Once the mage is done casting horror spells then you move everyone else in.

    If you could just leave the tent when you hear it first cast.
  • mumumomomumumomo Member Posts: 635
    @elminster‌
    i know i could do that but then

    first proposal : that's means more or less playing solo and requires metagaming. If i have to use solo (= get invulnerable) tactic for every hard fight, it kinda break the point of the group no?

    second proposal : i consider the "stair tactic" to be very cheesy

    I mean people keep saying :" in solo, you have to use metagaming or play cheesy" (both wrong by the way) but actually group play seems even worse.


    Maybe i just lack experience with groups and i need to keep trying and to develop better strategies.
    Also jaheira and khalid are really suboptimal NPC is BG1 (jaheira having crappy spells and khalid crappy strength) and the low level sorc is far from a powerhouse.

    I will try again with a different group to see if i have better results
  • FinaLfrontFinaLfront Member Posts: 260
    Yeah I just don't think you are used to it.

    Not having a cleric is really hurting you here. Confusion spells are going to be your worst enemy here. The best way I've found to combat confusion is to get off a silence '10. That should be your first spell you cast if you see a Mage or Cleric. (That's if you don't have 6 fireballs to lob at them instead) If a Mage has LGoI on them Spellstrike->silence. At low levels silence hardly ever gets saved against.
  • ZyzzogetonZyzzogeton Member Posts: 526
    I seriously doubt that many people ever beat BG without metagame knowledge (meaning a no reloads on their first playthrough without any kind of outside help) Unless you have an absurd amount of luck, BG pretty much requires metagaming solo or not.
  • SirK8SirK8 Member Posts: 527
    @mumumomo‌ - I think your reaction is based on your past experience and comfort zone. Playing with a group you will have to use different strategies that is a fact. I had a similar reaction when I attempted a solo Sorcerer (only got as far as FAI). I've only ever done group play myself. Everyone was always talking about how easy it is and how they are power houses, so I thought I'd try it.

    If you enjoy challenges, which you probably do if you usually play solo, then look at this as a new type of challenge. You have to approach fights differently, prepare different spells, use new strategies. Party composition can be a factor, but the game is doable with pretty much any part combo.

    That said, this game should also be played to have fun. So in the end, if it's not fun for you, move on to a play style that is :)
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited May 2014
    I'm not sure how the first proposal would break the point of the group. In any case unfortunately Jaheira (all druids in fact) used to have Remove Fear in the original BG1. That was removed in BG2/BGEE.

    The strategies I gave were cheesy but you had not provided any information on what spells your sorcerer has, what levels your characters are, or what items you have. Also did you already use up the 3 resist fear scrolls purchasable in high hedge?
  • mumumomomumumomo Member Posts: 635
    I am quite sure i just need to adapt like many of you have said.
    - adapt NPC selection
    - adapt items use
    - adapt quest order

    I will try again.

    What do you think of :
    - kivan for khalid. I only used khalid for ranged attack anyway and kivan is much better for that (elven, 17 dex, composite bows)
    - Branwen for Jaheira. I would lose quite a lot fighting-wise but her spells would be much better and she can tank as well as jaheira. I would maybe replace her by Yeslick later on.
    - Coran for Imoen (once i can get him)


    For BG2, i would probably stick with my original plan (jaheira, jan, keldorn)
  • SirK8SirK8 Member Posts: 527
    Kivan is a nice archer to have. I'm currently playing with Khalid as a fighter/mage (BG2Tweaks) and it's a fun new way to use him.

    I usually like Branwen more than Jaheira, but my favorite is Viconia (nice dex, so can double as a pretty effective tank if needed) depending if she fits my group overall.

    I have a soft spot for Imoen, probably because I usually don't take Monty and she's the easiest thief choice early on and I have a hard time letting go of NPCs that have travelled with the party for any significant period of time.
  • mumumomomumumomo Member Posts: 635
    This new party is much stronger.
    Kivan especially is extremely strong.
    Imoen is borderline useless apart from disarming a few traps.
    Branwen is not great but she has some good spells.

    I have now finished chapter 3 with everyone having around 10kxp. I will now pick coran for imoen and pass another level (probably on basilisks) before continuing the main quest.

    Final point, How can i be sure that kivan's quest is complete? I find no indication in the log.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    mumumomo said:

    Final point, How can i be sure that kivan's quest is complete? I find no indication in the log.

    You have to sell some Bandit Scalps to Officer Vai (Jesse if you want...) in Beregost, and then came back with no Scalps to her, so she leaves and you complete her quest and Kivan's.
  • mumumomomumumomo Member Posts: 635
    I have now almost finished the main quest (only the final fight left) but i want to do durlag and werewolf island first.

    everything has been really easy this time :
    - before the bandit camp, everything falls easily to sleep and/or kivan's arrows
    - the bandit camp is quite easy when using remove fear cleric spell.
    - i picked coran to replace imoen. He is really a beast. Between him and kivan, almost nothing lives long enough to reach melee range.
    - in cloakwood mines, i replaced branwen by yeslick, with the gauntlets of dex he is quite a formidable tank.
    - finally, once in baldur, i used my money to buy a lot of special arrows. This makes the end game trivially easy :
    Detonation arrow fired by coran/kivan will obliterate anything in less than 1 round. When i cannot use them, acid arrow also make short work of anything.

    Overall my concern now is that group play is too easy (i know i am never satisfied...), and quite frankly, in does not bring anything interraction wise in bgee (like you all told me).
  • BGLoverBGLover Member Posts: 550
    Quite frankly... you play to have fun. And if that means you prefer solo play, or group play, or playing whilst eating cheese and cucumber sandwiches, it's all good!

    But just because you find something easy, or you do not find group play creates anything interaction wise, or the fact that you don't like cheese and cucumber sandwiches, doesn't mean others feel the same way.

    You choose how you want to play. Whether you want to buy special arrows to make the end game trivially easy. Whether you want pickle or sald cream in in your cheese and cucumber sandwich snack. And I will die for your right to eat your sandwich however you want it!

    But remember, other people might just prefer ham sandwiches! :)

    And it's all still good!
  • SirK8SirK8 Member Posts: 527
    @mumumomo‌ - If you are going to give group play another shot, I recommend SCS (to bump up the difficulty) as well as the BG1NPC project mod (which will add interactions with the joinable NPCs).
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