Ideas for a random sorcerer

MacHurto

Folowing @Blackraven‌ take on sorcerers having only random powers I have decided to do my next run (with SCS for the first time) with a random sorcerer instead of a bard. I will just pick HaerDalis and Garrick, to have s feel for the bard class (never brought them along)

So what is the point of this thread other than my narcisism, you must be asking yourselves? Well, not sure if there is any, but if there was I would say it is about how you guys think a random sorcerer should work.

I agree the powers of a sorcerer should be more chaotic than they are now. It feels right. However, I would think a sorcerer should be able to shape magic the way he wants, specially the more powerful he becomes. So I would think something like the following might be a good idea:

- Every time you learn a new spell you roll a d20+your level+your CHA modifier. DC is 15+spell level.
- CHA mod is like STR to hit mod.

That way, you have 40% of choosing at lv1 (with CHA 18) and 80% at level 18 for the 9th circle.

Very 3rd Ed. but seems simple and apparently scales well.

Any other ideas? Is this all just a pile of gibberish? You will end up with some random useless spells (that you will have to find sone use for) but the more powerful you become the better you shape thd magic at your will

Blackraven

Sounds fine. Personally I've always struggled to see the link between CHA and a Sorcerer's magic, but I'm aware this is a traditional D&D rule, so your formula makes sense. I'd be curious to see how it plays out.
Another option, that @FinneousPJ came up with, could be to create a certain Sorcerer archetype and have your character mandatorily pick those spells first before you roll for other spells of the same spell level, for example a Fire Sorcerer having to pick spells like Burning Hands, Aganazzar's Scorcher, Fireball etc first.
Or maybe an AoE-Sorcerer, just came to my mind: roleplaying that your magic is just to powerful for you to contain and direct with precision...

MacHurto

@Blackraven‌ I think CHA is the main stat as it represents inner power, in a way.

The thematic sorcerer (fire, AoE, etc) is also good, but then it is not random. You just have a lower spell selection :-)

jackjack

I always felt that the focus on CHA was more about differentiating Sorcerers from Mages than anything else, but you make some sense.

MacHurto

@jackjack‌ yes, that too :-D

FinneousPJ

@MacHurto As I envisioned it, it would be random, but with a high probability of selecting your archetypical spells.

MacHurto

@FinneousPJ‌ As I see it, a sorcerer should be able to have some measure of control on how he shapes his energies.

In any case, unless I have calculated incorrectly a sorcerer of charisma 16 or less has more than 50% chances of having 1 or more random spells on each circle out of the first 3 spells he learns. I think that is quite a lot :-)

Do you think it is too little? Any better idea?

FinneousPJ

@MacHurto‌ The sorcerer has perfect control over how he shapes his energies (in other words, which spells he casts), but he does not have control of his innate (in)ability to cast certain spells (spell selections). I think including character level makes the check too easy in the long run. Maybe level/2? You final spell pick is at level 36 and the maximum DC would be 24... quite trivial, lol

MacHurto

@FinneousPJ‌ I havent really looked after lv20 I have to admit. I plan to play on a 6 man party and lv21+ is already ToB. I want to keep 1s as a random but am ok with an arch-sorcerer (almost) always deciding how to shape his magic. Chance of getting 1+ randoms on all 8 spells you get after lv 20 is still 1/3.

MacHurto

@FinneousPJ‌ I see your point but somehow it doesn't feel right to me a sorcerer wouldn't be able to see a mage casting a spell and not being able to mimic it if he tries. Or at least, have a chance of it.

Once we accept he has the possibility to try and direct his powers, the chance of doing so at high levels should be very high. After all, he is one of the most powerful casters around.

Doing it like i propose simulates the raw power (by random spells, that you will get many, looking at the percentages) and the increasing ability of the sorcerer to control his powers.

If you only put half the level, the chance of not having a random spell from the first circle (out of the first 3) is 4%. For the ninth circle it is 3%.

That seems too random to me and not showing any improvement with power

lunar

I once tried a truly random mutant sorcerer:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/19254/mutant-sorcerer/p1

Shameless self-promotion aside, you may get some ideas. Sadly I never managed to return to that gane for a while and lost interest soon after. Oh well I am a more of a bookish nerdy wizards type, anyway ^^

MacHurto

@lunar‌ thanks! By the way, has anyome found a way to use full scs on ipads or i need to jailbreak? I want to use the NPC mod with lots of dialog so need the dialog.xxx file

recklessheart

I adhere strongly to the idea that the Sorcerer's magic comes from their magical ancestor (a draconic bloodline, fey bloodline, demonic bloodline, genasic bloodline etc.) and that the Sorcerer does not so much 'select' their spell choices, as their spell choices are unlocked as they become more familiar and attuned to the magical ancestry in their blood.

Therefore, this is my philosophy on how I choose my Sorcerer spells.

A Sorcerer's spells should reflect the capabilities or mannerisms of their descendant, so taking 2 examples, I will try to demonstrate how origin informs ability in the Sorcerers I create.



Blue Dragon Sorcerer:

Lightning spells (to reflect the Blue Dragon's breath weapon): shocking grasp, lightning bolt, chain lightning etc.
Illusion spells (a Blue Dragon baits its prey with illusions and mirages): invisibility, shadow door, mislead etc.
Traditional arcane (universally, Dragons are exceptionally powerful arcane magic users): magic missile, mirror image, haste, pierce magic etc.
Weather control (a Blue Dragon is a master of its desert environment): grease, protection from fire, summon elemental, horrid wilting

Fey Sorcerer:

Enchantment spells (Fey enjoy charming those that they encounter): charm person, hold person, chaos etc.
Illusion spells (Fey use magical means to escape detection and potential dangers): invisibility, shadow door, mislead
Alternative offence (Fey abhor fire, but employ some weaker offensive spells that debilitate more than damage): colour spray, melf's acid arrow, bigby's grasping hand, power word: stun
Traditional arcane (universally, the Fey are known for their application of magic): magic missile, mirror image, haste, pierce magic etc.


By using this theory, you can a definite 'flavour' of Sorcerer that operates in a way that serves a certain function and reflects a clear heriditary aspect to their magic. Such Sorcerers are not often the most powerful, and can in some cases end up with obsoleting abilities like sleep etc. But this is only really a problem if you like to power game, in which case you probably don't have much interest in the RP ideas of this thread anyway.

FinneousPJ

@recklessheart This is pretty much what I was thinking as well with my archetype idea. You sound like you have great ideas for archetypes, or whatever you like to call them. A sorcerer's lineage could be another term that makes sense. You come from a line of blue dragon sorcerers, so your sorcerer will emphasize lightning spells.

MacHurto

@recklessheart‌ that's another nice take on it. My idea is less about the heritage (which in this case it is just Bhaal) and more about imagining an arcane user that does try his best to shape his internal energies at his will. That is of course difficult and does not work every time (resulting in random powers) but he gets better as he becomes more powerful.

Maybe a good mix would be that if the power is random, it has to first come from the Necromancy school if there is any left and cannot come from the illusions school (the opposite school) if no necromancy spells are left?

FinneousPJ

@MacHurto‌ Your lineage is never just Bhaal, since you have a mortal parent as well. Anyway your idea does sound nice, and you needn't mind our musings in your game.

MacHurto

@FinneousPJ‌ i have no problems with your musings. That's why I opened the thread! :-) and looking at necromancy spells, except skull trap and HW they all seem to be a pile of crap that I have never used before so I will add this to the concept.

Lineage is bhaal + elf, the idea being poor Charr'Neim has powers some would consider to be... Unnatural. That obviously makes people talk and therefore Sarevok finds out.

Of course, in chapter 6, he discovers it is because of the taint of Bhaal, etc, etc.

FinneousPJ

@MacHurto‌ Sounds interesting. I guess necro and illusion would suit Bhaal's taint quite well.

abacus

I had a play around with what I call the Necro-Sorcerer... Essentially a Sorcerer that must pick all Necromancy spells before any other schools.
It's pretty tough at early levels, as you have Chill Touch, Ghoul Touch & Vampiric Touch before getting any armour spells!
But it seems that the eventually load out will be pretty balanced: Animate Dead, Skull Trap & ADHW, Spirit Armour, Energy Drain.

Edit:
Also, a Sorcerer with 6 potential casts of Death Spell makes most SoA maps a breeze.