First Time Playthrough of ToEE

FinaLfront

Finally getting around to trying this game out. When I first heard of this game a few years back, I was shocked that I never knew this game existed. There is a good reason for that. ToEE came out in September 2003, when I was knee-deep in basic training. You can imagine with a military life underway, there wasn't much time to play games or keep up with what was released. So, sadly this gem flew in right under my radar for years.

Time to rectify that! Did some research, no shocker to find the game buggy. So I downloaded patch #2, and the Unofficial patch. Got my eye on the CoE mod. If I really like ToEE I'll probably give that mod a go.

Also, I have the actual disk version of the game that my Dad's had since the game came out (he never played it). So now they are mine, and I realized that it's been a long, long time since I've installed a game with a disk. It was pretty trippy listening to my blu-ray kickin' off, (I never use the thing). Also, needing a play disk in the drive is a blast from the past.

I made a NG party just so I can use a Paladin for my first playthrough. I've got said Paladin, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard, and a Bard. They are all the pre=generated characters too. (I am not rolling 5 characters...) Also, I'm playing on Ironman mode, so that should be painfully interesting.

Any advice/tips are welcome, especially any advice on how to avoid any bugs and what-not. Anything having to do with the story is ok too as long as its as abstract as possibly.

Well, Less type, more play!

Erg

FinaLfront said:

Got my eye on the CoE mod. If I really like ToEE I'll probably give that mod a go

FinaLfront said:

Any advice/tips are welcome

Do not play without the Co8 mod.

Co8 is available in two versions: the first version (called Standard) is mainly a fixpack, it removes tons of bugs and it is highly recommended.

The second version (called New Content) contains all the bugfixes plus a lot of additional content, so that's up to you. I personally would do a first run with just the Standard version and a second with the additional content, but if you don't want to play more than once, you may as well go for the additional content on you first and only run.

scriver

Tip number one: NEVER EVER PLAY IRONMAN!

Seriously. This game isn't just buggy, it's evil. It will break your savegame for shit and giggles, and leave you holding the remaining file shuddering in tears over all the lost hours.

I really enjoy ToEE, but this is the most infamous part of the game. Keep several savegames. Keep back up of those savegames. Never ever use the console unless you really, really have to. The console will create bugs in astonishing and unforgiving ways.

Tip #2. Download the Co8 mod. I know a lot of people think "you should play the vanilla game at least once before modding", but when it comes to ToEE, there really isn't any point in not going Co8 from the start. Even fully patched, the game was left in a really shameful state (due to the Troika Curse, mostly), bugs and crashes galore. A lot of things just doesn't work the way they were intended to. The Co8 versions not only adds new stuff (most of which is completely optional), it also fixes a lot of the bugs left by the original devs. Installing Co8 is basically the best action for avoiding bad stuff (well, unintended bad stuff anyway) happening during your playthrough.

That said, I really hope you enjoy the game. It's a bit of a diamond in the rough, as I think you say, so here's to giving it a shot. I'll try to answer any questions you might have, as well. Have fun!

FinaLfront

I think Ironman mode was a mistake. I didn't realize it was a "hardcore" mode. I thought it was the equivalent to "CORE RULES" from the bg series.

Erg said:

Co8 is available in two versions: the first version (called Standard) is mainly a fixpack, it removes tons of bugs and it is highly recommended.

Thanks, yeah I'm picking up the Standard mod for now. Going to restart this run on normal before things get too ugly. I'll probably Ironman it once I know the ins and outs of the module. Thank your for the suggestion

@scriver Indeed! Yeah I noticed that I couldn't quicksave, and only had one save file. I know from experience that, that is a recipe for disaster. For now I'm going standard Co8, but I'm pretty sure I'll add the whole Co8 later.

FinaLfront

@scriver Well, Looks like I've already got a question for you. Lol

I've run into my first bug, that Ironically seems to be coming from Co8. The ability modifier box doesn't display any attributes when hovering over skills. It's just blank. I have the Co8 8.0.1 patch add-on and it's active.

I've uninstalled Co8 and the ability modifier displays normally. Here are some screen shots.

Patched and Unmodded

Patched and Modded Co8 8.0.0 and 8.0.1

I'm just curious if you know what may be causing that. I've made an account over at the Co8 forums but it's still under process of review. So I figure I might as well see if anyone here knows what this is.

Erg

@FinaLfront, I just verified and I have the same problem (with Co8 8.0.0 plus 8.0.1). Last time I've played, IIRC I was using co8 7.9.0 and everything was working fine, so it must be a bug introduced by the current version.

Edit: or maybe it was Co8 7.6.0, I'm not sure.

FinaLfront

@Erg Thanks. I've just discovered it's even worse for the Character Creation screen

Yeah, once I can I'll definitely hit up the Co8 forums

Erg

@FinaLfront reading posts at the Co8 forum (I'm not registered, I was just lurking) I found that indeed this is a problem in the current version of Co8 and the developers of the mod are aware, but they consider it a feature rather than a bug. Quoting from their forum:

Zlayer said:
Hi, im new to this game and mod. The thing i notice is that when im creating a character, i cant see the stats name str dex con etc, were i add the points, i do see them on the left character chart.

Im using latest version of of Circle 8.0.1 and latest End-X 4.6

Gaear (the admin) reply:
The missing stat names is 'normal' in that we deliberately removed them. Long story short - we can't have them there with a new interface.

This is the full thread, the relevant part is toward the bottom of page 5.

FinaLfront

Good find! I was doing some lurking too, and it appears that 8.0.2 should be coming out some time in the near future.

From Gaear:

8.0.2 might actually be soon-ish, for what it's worth, though I don't think it will require a new game after patching anyway.

That was posted in November of '13, so maybe sooner than later by now.

CrevsDaak

It's said 'Soon...™'

Corvino

Just a quick tip if you're playing with a Paladin - you can fall for some stupid reasons. Some stuff that's not particularly morally grey will cause you to fall, like the drinking contest in the first town. If your dumbass fighter decides to enter and the paladin lets him, buhbye lay on hands, smiting and other divine powers.

There are a couple of threads on this off-topic forum about general hints for ToEE as well, with some decent advice on tactics as well as the peculiarities of the game.

Erg

Corvino said:

Just a quick tip if you're playing with a Paladin - you can fall for some stupid reasons. Some stuff that's not particularly morally grey will cause you to fall, like the drinking contest in the first town. If your dumbass fighter decides to enter and the paladin lets him, buhbye lay on hands, smiting and other divine powers.

@Corvino, if you use Co8 (7.0.0 or greater) a paladin will no longer fall because of the drinking contest.

Corvino

Erg said:

@Corvino, if you use Co8 (7.0.0 or greater) a paladin will no longer fall because of the drinking contest.

Good to know. You can still fall in a number of other ways, so be on your best behaviour!

FinaLfront

@Corvino‌
Yeah, and I've noticed a number of other restrictions as well, like not being able recruit lawful evil companions. I'm going to go ahead and pass the paladin up. I like the idea of their smiting evil thing, but I can't deal with their restrictions (or personality) I'm going to stick with my usual CN party.

booinyoureyes

I agree that Iron Man mode is a mistake. It doesn't feel like Tony Stark. It feels like Hulk smashing you. Hard. Repeatedly.

I'd actually give you the advice to run with a druid. They have excellent spells. Also I like to use an 8 person party.
I'd also go rogue/ranger for the dual wield or archery mixed with skills. I don't think a pure rogue is necessary.

My advice: always summon stuff, use area of effect (web is awesome) and definitely use healing potions on your front liners (the game is brutal for tanks)

scriver

Ah, sorry for not answering, but it seems it wasn't needed. I wouldn't have been able to help you anyway, my knowledge of 3,5 is so rooted that I never really looked at those fields, just assumed they were as they've been before

Corvino

I can second the advice of bringing a Druid along. While not individually amazing the ability to summon repeatedly is completely worth it. ToEE rewards summoning as it's one of the ways to break the action economy and get the upper hand. The Spell Focus: Conjuration and Augment Summoning feats turn a Druid into a Summoning Machine (tm) the can do a ****ton of damage. Similarly, Bards are a much neglected class in 3.5 and can be bloody powerful.