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Spell Revisions

ljboljbo Member Posts: 177
Has anybody played BG:EE or BG2:EE with the Spell Revisions mod to any significant length? I have given it a run through the first two chapters on my BGTutu installation (so as to test the mod content as opposed to its compatibility) and it makes the game feel really fresh. It makes almost all the spells worth learning, nerfing some (e.g. creatures put to a slumber by "Sleep" wake up when attacked) while powering others (e.g. "Burning Hands" significantly scales with the mage level).

I could easily assess whether it is compatible with BG:EE on the surface by spending 1/2 hour with it but I don't have time to do more than that now as I felt compelled to finish that BGTutu play through! Hence my question.

Comments

  • comebackhomecomebackhome Member Posts: 254
    I really loved this mod from the vanilla BG2 days of modding. I would also like to know if anyone else has tinkered around with this on the EE version :)

    lelag200
  • DemivrgvsDemivrgvs Member Posts: 315
    edited July 2014
    Demi cast spell: Resurrect thread.

    If anyone is interested there's a new build of SR which is indeed compatible with BGEE and BG2EE. A few players started testing it a bunch of days ago it but it seems to work fine. ;)

    Edit: @Akuro @Baptor

    elminsterlolienArdul
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,466
    edited August 2014
    Kudos - one of the best mods ever for BG2/BGT/Tutu. The kind of mod I really can't play without, along with others like Item Revisions, Rogue Rebalancing, Song & Silence, and Divine Remix. They add so much to the basic game functions.

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
    ArdulGrammarsalad
  • comebackhomecomebackhome Member Posts: 254
    Demivrgvs said:

    Demi cast spell: Resurrect thread.

    If anyone is interested there's a new build of SR which is indeed compatible with BGEE and BG2EE. A few players started testing it a bunch of days ago it but it seems to work fine. ;)

    Edit: @Akuro @Baptor

    Interested :) Got a link?

  • DemivrgvsDemivrgvs Member Posts: 315
    @comebackhome it's a closed beta right now, but I can send the link to you via PM if you wish. The mod seems in a really good shape now (we had to fix a lot of stuff for BGEE 1&2 in the first 2 betas) but we are still trying some stuff here and there, thus I don't want the build to start circulating everywhere.

  • ljboljbo Member Posts: 177
  • DemivrgvsDemivrgvs Member Posts: 315
    @ljbo ahaha thanks. It's getting better and better every new beta version trust me, and I have so many surprises in store for Item and Kit Revisions too, ;)

    Btw, if you have some feedback this is the right time for it, Revision mods are heavily based upon that, and the beta is a great opportunity to let beta testers try even daring things (e.g. the current build makes SCS mages use Fog Cloud against players instead of Blindness because the latter had almost no effect on PCs) before deciding what to do with the final build.

    lolienelminster
  • ljboljbo Member Posts: 177
    @Demivrgvs‌ "Fog Cloud"? It is a new one, isn't it?

  • DemivrgvsDemivrgvs Member Posts: 315
    edited July 2014
    @ljbo Short Story: yes it's a new spell that may replace Blindness as a 1st lvl spell for mages. If beta testers will find the spell cool and balanced then druids will get it too, as per PnP. I've made it as close as possible to PnP: everyone inside the cloud has limited line of sight (half the normal one instead of 1/4 for AI sake) and suffers -4 penalty to attack rolls (twice as much with ranged weapons).

    Long Story: Blindness has several "issues" imo:
    - when used against the AI it's an overpowered spell, almost save or die, spellcasters in particular cannot cope with it
    - when used against players it's not so great, good against PC warriors, but completely useless against PC spellcasters (not to mention players can easily "cure" or counter it in multiple ways)
    - its main concept (no line of sight) actually do not affect players at all. Unless playing solo - a single nearby party member negates the reduced line of sight, making it not a Blindness spell but just another "reduce thac0" variant

    Fog Cloud tries to "play fair" and even if it's not full blindness it makes players at least experience a glimpse of what the original spell was supposed to make them feel - reduced line of sight.

    I don't know if Fog Cloud will replace Blindness on the final release, it depends on beta testers feedback, or if we find an even better looking solution to "save" the original spell.

    [Deleted User]AstroBryGuyelminster
  • ljboljbo Member Posts: 177
    @Demivrgvs‌ It looks a brilliant idea! I may not have the opportunity to play much in the coming weeks but any chance you could send the beta my way: "luc j bourhis at mac.com" replacing the first 2 spaces with _

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,466
    My recent BGT run had Sirines (I think - those blue archer ladies near the beach) casting an AoE fog spell that reduced sight in the radius, but people could see again if they moved away. I think I was using SR 3. Was that Fog Cloud? Because if so yeah, use it, it was a fun spell, definitely added some chaos to the fight and disrupted my tactics a bit.

  • DemivrgvsDemivrgvs Member Posts: 315
    edited August 2014
    @ljbo no problem, the beta reached a very stable and bug free state, thus we are not really testing bugs now but rather the balance of spells and the interaction with the AI, while trying out new stuff or "daring stuff" like the above mentioned Blindness/Fog Cloud (e.g. I similarly replaced Deafness with Sound Burst; we are trying to "get rid of Spell Immunity" replacing it with Wall of Dispel Magic/Otiluke's Dispelling Screen; I'm discussing to move, tweak or replace Chaos in order to make it not outshine the supposedly more famous Confusion; etc.). Too much stuff to mention it here. :D

    @subtledoctor Within SRV3 there was no Fog Cloud, but Incendiary Cloud was blinding everyone inside it creating a similar effect. No idea if BGT adding something similar for Sirines, but what you are describing is exactly how I expect Fog Cloud to work.

  • ljboljbo Member Posts: 177
    @subtledoctor‌ In the vanilla game, sirines cast Dire Charm. Since Fog Cloud replaces Blindness, something else is at work. Do you also have a tactic mod such as SCS?

  • PalanthisPalanthis Member Posts: 283
    edited August 2014
    Demivrgvs said:



    Long Story: Blindness has several "issues" imo:
    - when used against the AI it's an overpowered spell, almost save or die, spellcasters in particular cannot cope with it
    - when used against players it's not so great, good against PC warriors, but completely useless against PC spellcasters (not to mention players can easily "cure" or counter it in multiple ways)
    - its main concept (no line of sight) actually do not affect players at all. Unless playing solo - a single nearby party member negates the reduced line of sight, making it not a Blindness spell but just another "reduce thac0" variant


    --> Don't forget the new patch for BGEE will change the way AI will react to a blindness spell (they'll move around instead of staying idle). Not sure if they can attack if they come close to players though.

    Also, didn't SCS change AI so that spellcasters can remove blindness with spells like remove curse (in SR) ?

    Finally, i thought spellcasters players couldn't target enemies when they were blinded.

    Some issues remain with Blindness, right. But i'm not sure remove the spell would be so cool. Adding Fog Cloud seems really nice though.

  • ljboljbo Member Posts: 177
    edited August 2014
    Palanthis said:


    --> Don't forget the new patch for BGEE will change the way AI will react to a blindness spell (they'll move around instead of staying idle). Not sure if they can attack if they come close to players though.

    Even if they can, blindness + range weapons = death

  • DemivrgvsDemivrgvs Member Posts: 315
    Palanthis said:

    --> Don't forget the new patch for BGEE will change the way AI will react to a blindness spell (they'll move around instead of staying idle). Not sure if they can attack if they come close to players though.

    Also, didn't SCS change AI so that spellcasters can remove blindness with spells like remove curse (in SR) ?

    Finally, i thought spellcasters players couldn't target enemies when they were blinded.

    Some issues remain with Blindness, right. But i'm not sure remove the spell would be so cool. Adding Fog Cloud seems really nice though.

    @Palanthis well I cannot balance stuff on tweaks that BGEE has not implemented yet, not to mention I want everything to work fine on both EE and original games. Furthermore, even if the affected targets will randomly walk instead of staying there waiting to be slayed the problem remains almost unchanged imo: blindness is pretty much a death sentence when used by players against the AI - while blindness against players has relatively good effects but do not play the intended role (no line of sight).

    SCS and SR make True Seeing cure and protect from blindness yes, but that a high level spell. The tweak is there because DavidW felt at least mid-high level mages needed a counter for such an OP effect. Keep in mind that arcane casters do not have a Cure Blindness/Deafness spell, and that making allied clerics (if there are any - which is not always the case for AI) help blinded creatures is not an easy task. Last but not least, this tweak alleviate the problem for BG2 mid-high lvl casters, but it doesn't really fix the overall implementation of Blindness.

    Afaik blindness does not prevent PCs from casting spells.

    Leaving aside it should have never been a cheap 1st lvl spell (it's level 2 or 3 within PnP depending on edition and caster type) I'm the first saying that if we find a good way to "save" Blindness I'm fine not replacing it (Fog Cloud could still be added separately) but right now it seemed an impossible mission and testers seem to feel FC offers a more interesting/unique/fair experience.

  • lansounetlansounet Member Posts: 1,182
    Demivrgvs said:


    Afaik blindness does not prevent PCs from casting spells.

    It doesn't but it makes your caster run to the target to fire at point blank.

  • ManBearPigManBearPig Member Posts: 34
    I've been playing around with the SR, very cool btw, and was wondering if there is a complete list of the spells (and complete updated changes) contained. Maybe I've just missed where it is. On the G3 there seems to just be the "planned changes" which isn't comprehensive.

  • DemivrgvsDemivrgvs Member Posts: 315
    edited August 2014
    @ManBearPig you can find all infos within Spell Revisions forums. SR V4 is still evolving during the beta (I just released a new build today) thus the documentation for that build isn't finished. Specifically:
    - Arcane Spells topic tries to summarize the changes from vanilla game to V3
    - Divine Spells topic tries to summarize the changes from vanilla game to V3
    - SR V4 (planned changes) gives full details of the changes from Spell Revisions V3 to the current V4. If something documented there is marked with a red "Done" flag it means it's both in the current beta and granted for the official release.

    The above mentioned topic will be updated with stuff "approved" by beta testers, but you may follow the beta as well here if you wish.

    @lansounet yeah, but they can still react very well (properly defend, cast defensively, attack with limited range, cure themselves, etc.), unlike AI casters who just stand there waiting to die.

  • ljboljbo Member Posts: 177
    edited August 2014
    @Demivrgvs‌ I see that the component allowing creatures affected by Sleep to wake up when hit is not installed for BG:EE as it relies on ToBex. There is not much you can do about it or is there? It's a feature I really like. Well, I will refrain from using Sleep to give a chance to the other spells as I have been playing since I got hooked on SR.

    Post edited by ljbo on
  • DemivrgvsDemivrgvs Member Posts: 315
    edited August 2014
    @ljbo we were discussing this very thing yesterday with @Ardanis. We were actually relying on an older hack rather than ToBEx, because the latter was making unconscious targets wake up even when knocked down by non-sleep effects (e.g. Grease, Command, wing buffet, etc.). Within the next beta we are trying to test it out with ToBEx, and I really hope BGEE default exe can handle it because if it doesn't I cannot do much.

  • ljboljbo Member Posts: 177
    @Demivrgvs‌ I had been doing a bit of digging after my post and I stumbled upon this post: Item 11 for the issue at stake.

  • DemivrgvsDemivrgvs Member Posts: 315
    @ljbo I knew that. What I was trying to say you is that while such feature has been included there are two different ToBEx entries for it:
    -90 Awaken Fix (this is the one we need)
    -100 Awaken On Damage (this has to be disabled)
    The first one is the one which allows only properly tweaked effects to work (e.g. such as SR's Sleep spell), the second one makes everyone automatically wake up when hit, be it sleep, knock down, wing buffet, etc. For everything to work correctly '100 Awaken On Damage' has to be disabled by default, and I instead think BGEE opted for it (probably because it doesn't require additional edit for true sleep spells/items/effects).

  • ljboljbo Member Posts: 177
    @Demivrgvs‌ yes, sorry, of course you must know that! If hitting a greased enemy sets him free etc, then I agree it's a no-go.

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    So... is there some link for a EE SR somewhere?

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