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Lowest possible AC in BGEE.

SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
edited May 2014 in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
So what's the lowest possible AC you can get in BGEE (BG1) that is legit and you can obtain without mods?

I've managed to get -21/-25 and i'm curious if someone can get it lower than that. This is purely for fun and you can use any class combination that is legit (can be done in game without cheating).

[Edited] :

-23/-27 with Defensive Harmony.

Comments

  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    How did you get -25 in bg1?
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    -27 is the highest AC possible without considering AC Modifiers, not engine-wise (which handles up to -30), but after -20 you only get SWS and DEX's AC bonus.
    Without modifiers, I got -23, with Modifiers to a specific type of damage, -73 to crushing, -41 to missile and -34 slashing, IIRC piercing was at -37 max.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited May 2014
    Berserker dual classed to mage.
    Dexterity 25

    Helm - Balduran
    Chest - Nothing/Full Plate
    Ring - Claw
    Ring - Ring of Protection +2
    Weapon - Twinkle
    Shield - Large shield +2
    Cloak - Cloak of Balduran

    Berserker rage
    Blur
    Improved Invisibility
    Potion of Defense

    Number on screen is -21, doesn't show the additional -4 from Improved Invisibility.

    Potion of Defense = 0 AC
    Dexterity 25 = -6
    Helm of Balduran = -7
    Claw = - 8
    Ring of Protection +2 = -10
    Twinkle = -12
    Large shield +2 = -15
    Cloak of Balduran = - 16
    Rage = -18
    Blur = -21
    Improved Invisibility = -25 (doesn't show up on screen).

    A kensai could get the same if his +2 AC stacks with the rest, then it can replace rage.

    You'll reach -27 if you have a cleric that throw defensive harmony on you.

    Well you could reach -29 if you throw in protection from evil and it's an evil enemy that hit you.

    [Edited] :

    You could also gain an additional +2 AC from having a skald sing. But i'm not adding that because that would require a multi player game as you can't get a skald and still have your Berserker/mage in a single player game.

    But the -23/-27 (-29 with PfE) is possible to get in a single player game with only the original NPC's and no mods.
    Post edited by SionIV on
  • FinaLfrontFinaLfront Member Posts: 260
    New question.

    What is the most efficient AC score? In other words, at what point does the most accurate enemy in the game have to roll 20?
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    elminster said:

    (In response to OP's original and subsequent posts) my guess would be the blade


    Potion of Defense = 0 AC
    Dexterity 25 = -6
    Ring of Protection +2 = -8
    Single Weapon Style =-9
    Twinkle = -11
    Cloak of Balduran = - 12
    Blur = -15
    Claw (has to be equipped after Blur is cast or else they won't stack) = - 16
    Defensive Spin (level 10) = -26

    (with group)

    Defensive Harmony = -28


    (multiplayer with group)

    Skald singing = -30


    (with spells that grant attack roll penalties to enemies)


    Improved Invisibility = -34
    Protection from Evil = -36 (against evil creatures)



    Wouldn't you be able to get even more AC if you ignored single weapon style and picked up one of the magical bucklers?
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    FinaLfront said:

    New question.

    What is the most efficient AC score? In other words, at what point does the most accurate enemy in the game have to roll 20?

    Sarevok has a base Thac0 of 2, but he has a +5 two handed sword and 18/100 strength. So I guess he has -6 Thac0.

    So that mean your AC would have to be what...like -25 or so to make it so he only hits on critical hits.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited May 2014
    SionIV said:

    Wouldn't you be able to get even more AC if you ignored single weapon style and picked up one of the magical bucklers?

    I don't think there are any magical bucklers that add any more than +1 to AC (Kiel's adds to dexterity which is already at 25). If there are then they are a black pits thing. So really single weapon style and bucklers are interchangable (when it comes to AC within this analysis)
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    elminster said:

    SionIV said:

    Wouldn't you be able to get even more AC if you ignored single weapon style and picked up one of the magical bucklers?

    I don't think there are any magical bucklers that add any more than +1 to AC (Kiel's adds to dexterity which is already at 25). If there are then they are a black pits thing. So really single weapon style and bucklers are interchangable (when it comes to AC within this analysis)
    Damn there isn't a single buckler +1 in Baldur's Gate? I've must been looking at small shields all this time.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    Lemernis said:

    I'm blown away by these numbers. I'm usually thrilled to have AC down around -6 in BGEE. Been so long since I played BG2 I can't even recall what sorts of AC one gets at epic level play in that game. But anyhoo, kudos to your powergaming skills!

    AC isn't everything in the game and i very rarely play with an AC under -10. I'll most of the time end up picking resistance and saving throws over AC once I've reached a -5 to -6.

    This was just a fun idea to see how high you could get with what class combinations. Throwing around spells and then using rage to reach this level is fun but it wouldn't be very practical in the game.
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    edited May 2014
    I always go for at least -20 AC for my Charname in solo run.

    AC is very important and very effective, even in SoA. Most of the time people feel like it's starting to get useless because they are focusing on something else (dual wielding offensive weapons, using gauntlet of specialization instead of gauntlet of dexterity etc) while it is still very viable and eazy to reach incredible numbers.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    SionIV said:

    Damn there isn't a single buckler +1 in Baldur's Gate? I've must been looking at small shields all this time.

    There is, but @elminster said more than +1. On that, he's right, there isn't any better in BG1/ee.

    However, you can get a Buckler +3 in BG2ee, during Neera's ToB quest.
    Gotural said:

    AC is very important and very effective, even in SoA. Most of the time people feel like it's starting to get useless because they are focusing on something else (dual wielding offensive weapons, using gauntlet of specialization instead of gauntlet of dexterity etc) while it is still very viable and eazy to reach incredible numbers.

    Even in ToB, too. A lot of people have said that AC becomes useless in ToB, but I reckon that's only because they haven't managed to get AC low enough to see the benefit. When you get it down below -15 (unbuffed), it starts being useful even in ToB, and at -20 even the ToB boss-enemies will often miss you (and their minions will really struggle). Then buff up to boost it further, and you'll win most ToB fights without even taking damage.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    Gallowglass said:

    SionIV said:

    Damn there isn't a single buckler +1 in Baldur's Gate? I've must been looking at small shields all this time.

    There is, but @elminster said more than +1. On that, he's right, there isn't any better in BG1/ee.

    However, you can get a Buckler +3 in BG2ee, during Neera's ToB quest.
    Gotural said:

    AC is very important and very effective, even in SoA. Most of the time people feel like it's starting to get useless because they are focusing on something else (dual wielding offensive weapons, using gauntlet of specialization instead of gauntlet of dexterity etc) while it is still very viable and eazy to reach incredible numbers.

    Even in ToB, too. A lot of people have said that AC becomes useless in ToB, but I reckon that's only because they haven't managed to get AC low enough to see the benefit. When you get it down below -15 (unbuffed), it starts being useful even in ToB, and at -20 even the ToB boss-enemies will often miss you (and their minions will really struggle). Then buff up to boost it further, and you'll win most ToB fights without even taking damage.
    But that one isn't a buckler +1 to start with, it's a special case.

    A magical buckler +1 would grant you AC +2 while Buckleys and Kiels buckler will only grant you +1 AC.

    So if there were any Buckler +1 in BGEE he would gain +2 AC instead of only getting +1 AC from single weapon style.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    @SionIV - arghh, yes, good point. You have to go to BG2 to get the Buckler +1.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    Gallowglass said:

    @SionIV - arghh, yes, good point. You have to go to BG2 to get the Buckler +1.

    I 'demand' that during the next patch they will add a secret and hidden buckler +1 for those poor halfling thieves!
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    SionIV said:

    Gallowglass said:

    @SionIV - arghh, yes, good point. You have to go to BG2 to get the Buckler +1.

    I 'demand' that during the next patch they will add a secret and hidden buckler +1 for those poor halfling thieves!
    Give it to Jenkal!

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    CrevsDaak said:

    SionIV said:

    Gallowglass said:

    @SionIV - arghh, yes, good point. You have to go to BG2 to get the Buckler +1.

    I 'demand' that during the next patch they will add a secret and hidden buckler +1 for those poor halfling thieves!
    Give it to Jenkal!

    I agree! Evil Halfling rogues unite!
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    @CrevsDaak, @SionIV - yes, I reckon that'd be plausible (he could have got it from his Ogre Mage pal), and at a reasonable stage in the game (you'll probably have done a little work and gained a few levels before you get there).
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    And let's be honest here, it isn't really that game breaking either.
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    Gallowglass said:


    Even in ToB, too. A lot of people have said that AC becomes useless in ToB, but I reckon that's only because they haven't managed to get AC low enough to see the benefit. When you get it down below -15 (unbuffed), it starts being useful even in ToB, and at -20 even the ToB boss-enemies will often miss you (and their minions will really struggle). Then buff up to boost it further, and you'll win most ToB fights without even taking damage.

    Totally true, that's how you do it !

    Plus, having a good AC maximises the benefits of Mirror Image / Stoneskin because you don't have to rebuff as often.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    There is also a sling +1 in one of the houses, so would fit very well in with the buckler.
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