BG Vet. turned BP noob asking for advice... *Minimal spoilers please*

abacus

So, I've been toying for a (long) while with the idea of playing the following all-PC party through the main BG saga/campaign:

Protagonist:
- Priest of Lathander
His personal guard:
- Inquisitor
- Cavalier
- Undead Hunter
Their scout:
- Stalker
And their scribe to record their deeds for posterity:
- Bard (or possibly Skald)

A nicely themed group, I think the RP-ers amongst you would agree... The problem is that this party would cakewalk the entire game and therefore be no fun. (Also: zero banters)

The solution I've come up with is to use this party for my first ever Black Pits run instead...

So my question is whether this group will have any significant problems in the BP campaigns...
Or will it dramatically miss some high-end magical firepower and/or thieving?

As a side question, do you think the (mechanically superior) Skald would be thematically appropriate for this party, or is the Northern Viking-esque element too out of character?

Also, are the weapons in Black Pits similar to those in BG, or are there any not to be missed from usually unremarkable types? Did spears suddenly become *the* OP specialisation?! (general pointers only here, please)

Gotural

I like your party, and I think the Skald would be very fitting.

But I think you will lack some arcane magic, maybe you could make a multi Cleric/Mage instead of your Priest of Lathander ?

Oudyn

As Gotural said above, you might have some problems with arcane magic (stuff is expensive in BP so scrolls and wands are probably a no-go) but otherwise this party seems fine. The weapons are the same, as are the ideal choices.

The RP value of this group seems great.

Zyzzogeton

Scouting is fairly irrelevant in the Black Pits. Even less in BP1 since you start off with both you and the enemy party in full sight of each other.

While this isn't the case in BP2, as you're given some leeway, its just a bigger arena so there's some FoW. But since you get a full restore before each fight, so Sanctuary, Invisibility, etc.

abacus

I know the scout role isn't necessary in a gladitorial environment, but I like the idea that they were captured together. Maybe an Archer could play the role, but I do like the righteous stealth focus of the Stalker.

I suppose the group would rely on the Inquisitor for the anti-magic heavy lifting, whilst the Skald or Bard focusses on buffing and crowd control.

abacus

Actually, Archer could work nicely... as the supreme hunter/tracker he could represent the wilderness guide, whilst the bard greases the wheels in more urban settings.

This gives me images of the two of them being in charge of arranging sustenance... The archer grumbling about rabbits and voles whilst the Bard pays a fortune for a decent Calishite takeaway!

FinneousPJ

Archers are pretty great in both BP games. Sounds like a cool party. Reduced arcane power is a welcome challenge.

Blackraven

I think that apart from arcane magic (as mentioned above), you might miss thieving skillsthat the Stalker can't provide (other than scouting)... If I were you I'd take a Fighter/Thief along instead of a Stalker.

FinneousPJ

Thief can unlock some extra stuff in BP2 but is not needed.

Gallowglass

Another alternative to the Stalker would be an Assassin ... when you've got no mage of your own, disrupting enemy mages becomes even more important than usual, and poisoned weapons are good for that.

Picking pockets and identifying items are not an issue in BP, so an unkitted Bard is not optimal. On the other hand everyone can be forced into melee due to the close quarters, so I'd take a Blade instead - the Spins can be life-savers in BP.

I haven't tried a party like this, but my guess is that you'll get through BP1 okay, but that you might then struggle in BP2 because a lone Bard (or Bard-kit) isn't much arcane casting power.

You'll definitely need the Inquisitor for both his Dispel and his True Sight, but I'd advise dropping either the Cavalier or the Undead Hunter for a Berserker. Both the Cavalier and the Undead Hunter will have opportunities to use their specialties in the course of BP1+2, so they're both useful, but nevertheless you'll probably fare better if you take one of them and a Berserker, instead of both of them. I don't want to spam unwanted spoilers, but there's a reason why I'm advising this, which you'll see for yourself in due course.

Regarding items, you've got all the usual stuff (including magical gear) available, plus one or two special BP-only items (but nothing dramatically game-changing). There's no need to change your usual selection of weapon proficiencies. Shop carefully, however - you can find yourself short of gold in BP.

FinneousPJ

@Gallowglass‌ Not that either fits the theme but I'd take a barbarian over a single class zerker for BP any time. No enemy in BP uses anything the barbarian is not immune to, so the zerker loses its only defensive advantage. On the other hand the barbarian's DR, backstab immunity and movement speed are assets.

CrevsDaak

@FinneousPJ‌ just one little correction...

if you met an HLA mage they could cast Maze on you, and the Demiliches use their Imprison the Soul (Imprisonment) ability, and Barbarians aren't immune to any of those

But I think Barb over Zerker in the BP will create a great debate, I think that both have their downsides and goodsides (even if that isn't a word :P), the Zerker can get higher APR easier, while the Barb can hit for more damage easier, and get more PDR easier too, but the Zerker can dual-class into a Mage or even a Cleric (if you want). I would choose Barbarian and go dual-wield myself.

Blackraven

nonsensical post deleted

Gallowglass

FinneousPJ said:

No enemy in BP uses anything the barbarian is not immune to

That's not true, @FinneousPJ‌ ... I think you must have forgotten something. I'm trying not to spoil it for the OP, but there is exactly such a situation in BP, which is why I'm recommending that the OP needs a zerker (not a barb!)

meagloth

Whoa... So much divine magic. Nice for RP, but black pits isn't about RP. Bp2, I found, is actually quite hard, (I don't replay battles) and at high level you going to want a Mage. I would kick the undead hunter for a sorcerer, and you could use an assassin(good for 1) or shadowdancer(good for 2)in place of the ranger.

abacus

Thanks for the advice guys… but I'm not changing the core composition. A kit tweak here or there is all… if I reach a point I cannot beat, then so be it!

Oh, and @meagloth… everything is about RP if you try hard enough!

Sure, I could go with a sorcerer, illusionist/thief, berserker, cleric/ranger, inquisitor & something with poison weapon… but where's the fun in that?!

FinneousPJ

CrevsDaak said:

@FinneousPJ‌ just one little correction...

if you met an HLA mage they could cast Maze on you, and the Demiliches use their Imprison the Soul (Imprisonment) ability, and Barbarians aren't immune to any of those

But I think Barb over Zerker in the BP will create a great debate, I think that both have their downsides and goodsides (even if that isn't a word :P), the Zerker can get higher APR easier, while the Barb can hit for more damage easier, and get more PDR easier too, but the Zerker can dual-class into a Mage or even a Cleric (if you want). I would choose Barbarian and go dual-wield myself.

@CrevsDaak @Gallowglass‌ Untrue. Barbarians are immune to Maze and BP2 Demiliches. I welcome you to try it yourself; I already have.

EDIT: I believe the reason for this is that they couldn't use the normal imprison effect because that could easily mess up your game, so even the demilich imprison is actually maze. Barbarians are immune to maze.

Gallowglass

@FinneousPJ - oh! Well, that's interesting and surprising, it never occurred to me that what seemed to be "the same" spell might actually be something completely different between BG and BP, so I hadn't tested it. Good find, and in that case, I agree that there'd be a case for a barb. But now I'm wondering if there are any other such sneaky changes between BG and BP ... I don't approve of this sort of change - it seems like cheating by the devs, even if (in this case) it's in the player's favour.