Lawful Evil Deities.
SionIV
Member Posts: 2,689
So I've been looking through different sites online at the different evil deities, and I've been noticing something. There is no god out there for Lawful Evil people that focus on selfishness, power, greed, manipulation without having them either being chaotic, murderers or enjoy torturing children.
Whom would an evil merchant or leader pray to? Who would Kagain pray to? Most of the deities I've been looking at are either out of this world cruel (torture, mass murder) or require you to sacrifice people. No clever lawful evil person would get caught doing either of those.
So looking at some of the human deities that are lawful evil.
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[BANE]
Banite customs were often quite spartan in nature and the god's followers celebrated no holidays in honor of their god, instead showing their gratitude to him through service and the ritual torture and sacrifice of sentient beings offensive to the god.
Rites include drumming, chanting, and the sacrifice of intelligent beings, usually upon an altar of blck basalt or obsidian. Of late, clerics of Cyric have become a preferred sacrifice, though old favorites such as paladins, unicorns, children, and celestials remain popular with traditionalists. <- At least it sounds fun...
Bane orders his clerics and followers to achieve positions of power within their society, either through force or trickery, and to use that power to further the cause of hate, fear, destruction, and strife. <- Why would i want to cause fear, destruction or strife?
Torture, beatings, and calculated assassinations frequently come into play in such operations, and rare indeed is the initiate of the Lord of Darkness who does not possess at least rudimentary skill in such enterprises. <- My fat little merchant or skinny noble are not going to be proficient in torture or assassinations...
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[GARGAUTH]
This one might be interesting and an option, but he just seems so over the top. Doesn't help that he was thrown out of the Nine Hells because of his foul nature. If he's so foul and corrupt that they don't even want him down there, i wouldn't dare to become a cleric of his.
He embodied the inevitable decay and corruption that accompanied all self-serving, greedy, and power-hungry leaders and groups. <- No thank you?
The Unveiling
This occurred each Midwinter night. This horrific ceremony, believed to involve many gruesome sacrifices, heralded the imminent time when Gargauth would seize Faerûn as his unholy kingdom and transport it to Baator to form the Tenth Pit of Hell. <- I like my little shop and money, don't want to end up in Baator selling magical items.
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[IYACHTU XVIM]
Xvimlar exult in destruction and in oppressing others and enjoy casually dealing pain. Kicking folk they pass, slamming doors on people, and hurling stones down busy streets at random are not uncommon acts for Xvimlar. <- That's not going to cause attention and have the guard upon me.
Xvim delights in death and destruction, and encourages his devoted to emulate him. In Xvim’s dark, twisted mind, nothing worthy is accomplished without the destruction of something else. <- I prefer to keep my shop or noble house intact without causing destruction, thank you very much.
Those who would follow Xvim must be as committed to destruction, oppression, and cruelty as he is. <- What is up with this destruction? Are we followers of Talos or something? Oppression and cruelty i can understand, destruction? No thank you.
Novice Xvimlar are charged as follows by senior clergy members: .Obey or die in pain and utter destruction. Enslave or slay the weak, and be sure that they know their suffering is in Xvim’s name and by his will. Cause pain and fearful obedience in others whenever prudent <- I'm just a greedy power hungry person, what's up with all this pain and destruction? If i slay the beggar outside i'm going to end up having a guard on my arse.
There is a delight in destruction.feel it, and indulge in it.. <- Uhmm... Yea.
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[LOVIATAR]
I'm not a sadist and into torturing people, no thank you.
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I'm just looking through different sites and books to get this information, take it with a grain of salt. The problem i have with this is that you can't be evil without going over the top, at least not when it comes to lawful evil.
I would like to know if there is any lawful evil deities that aren't over the top with human sacrifices and destruction? If i destroy the world around me i can't benefit from it and gain money or power. I have no want to sacrifice any mortal beings and if i got caught doing something like that it would be over. I'm pretty sure you won't find any of the council of five members sacrificing sentient creatures in their backyard.
So, what is there left to do?
Thank you for reading my wall of text!
Whom would an evil merchant or leader pray to? Who would Kagain pray to? Most of the deities I've been looking at are either out of this world cruel (torture, mass murder) or require you to sacrifice people. No clever lawful evil person would get caught doing either of those.
So looking at some of the human deities that are lawful evil.
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[BANE]
Banite customs were often quite spartan in nature and the god's followers celebrated no holidays in honor of their god, instead showing their gratitude to him through service and the ritual torture and sacrifice of sentient beings offensive to the god.
Rites include drumming, chanting, and the sacrifice of intelligent beings, usually upon an altar of blck basalt or obsidian. Of late, clerics of Cyric have become a preferred sacrifice, though old favorites such as paladins, unicorns, children, and celestials remain popular with traditionalists. <- At least it sounds fun...
Bane orders his clerics and followers to achieve positions of power within their society, either through force or trickery, and to use that power to further the cause of hate, fear, destruction, and strife. <- Why would i want to cause fear, destruction or strife?
Torture, beatings, and calculated assassinations frequently come into play in such operations, and rare indeed is the initiate of the Lord of Darkness who does not possess at least rudimentary skill in such enterprises. <- My fat little merchant or skinny noble are not going to be proficient in torture or assassinations...
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[GARGAUTH]
This one might be interesting and an option, but he just seems so over the top. Doesn't help that he was thrown out of the Nine Hells because of his foul nature. If he's so foul and corrupt that they don't even want him down there, i wouldn't dare to become a cleric of his.
He embodied the inevitable decay and corruption that accompanied all self-serving, greedy, and power-hungry leaders and groups. <- No thank you?
The Unveiling
This occurred each Midwinter night. This horrific ceremony, believed to involve many gruesome sacrifices, heralded the imminent time when Gargauth would seize Faerûn as his unholy kingdom and transport it to Baator to form the Tenth Pit of Hell. <- I like my little shop and money, don't want to end up in Baator selling magical items.
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[IYACHTU XVIM]
Xvimlar exult in destruction and in oppressing others and enjoy casually dealing pain. Kicking folk they pass, slamming doors on people, and hurling stones down busy streets at random are not uncommon acts for Xvimlar. <- That's not going to cause attention and have the guard upon me.
Xvim delights in death and destruction, and encourages his devoted to emulate him. In Xvim’s dark, twisted mind, nothing worthy is accomplished without the destruction of something else. <- I prefer to keep my shop or noble house intact without causing destruction, thank you very much.
Those who would follow Xvim must be as committed to destruction, oppression, and cruelty as he is. <- What is up with this destruction? Are we followers of Talos or something? Oppression and cruelty i can understand, destruction? No thank you.
Novice Xvimlar are charged as follows by senior clergy members: .Obey or die in pain and utter destruction. Enslave or slay the weak, and be sure that they know their suffering is in Xvim’s name and by his will. Cause pain and fearful obedience in others whenever prudent <- I'm just a greedy power hungry person, what's up with all this pain and destruction? If i slay the beggar outside i'm going to end up having a guard on my arse.
There is a delight in destruction.feel it, and indulge in it.. <- Uhmm... Yea.
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[LOVIATAR]
I'm not a sadist and into torturing people, no thank you.
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I'm just looking through different sites and books to get this information, take it with a grain of salt. The problem i have with this is that you can't be evil without going over the top, at least not when it comes to lawful evil.
I would like to know if there is any lawful evil deities that aren't over the top with human sacrifices and destruction? If i destroy the world around me i can't benefit from it and gain money or power. I have no want to sacrifice any mortal beings and if i got caught doing something like that it would be over. I'm pretty sure you won't find any of the council of five members sacrificing sentient creatures in their backyard.
So, what is there left to do?
Thank you for reading my wall of text!
4
Comments
For instance, priests of Bhaal had to murder someone once every tenday, or something ridiculous like that. Not kill in combat- but murder. And then do a ritual about it. But the generalized faithful did not. Likewise, Bane's (though he's dead in BG time) general 'worshipers' (as in, average commoner A) probably don't know a darn about torture, but believe in the whole tyranny, better then everyone else, chosen by their Lord to rule over others, hierarchy to their dark lord blather.
I mean, if you're a cleric of evil, you sort of have to commit perhaps over the top evil acts. But your general worshipper doesn't.
Kagain, for instance, is likely a worshiper of Abbathor, the NE dwarven god of greed and treasure-lust. Abbathor encourages his followers to take what they can- but not from their fellow dwarves, as that endangers the clan. The priests do a once a year sacrifice, but it can be any creature that is an enemy of dwarves, including animals.
In turn, you may want to look at LN and NE gods for more ideas for a LE character. NE Shar requires the sacrifice of innocents, but NE Mask generally just requires stealing from those innocents. TN (but law leaning- lawful alignments are allowed, chaotic are not) Kossuth has definite lawful evil followers; admittedly, they're sort of 'BURN EVERYTHING WITH FIREEE', but nothing in Kossuth's profile demands that, just that one respect and worship the flames. Followers of NE (dead) Myrkul generally went around making people fear death, but not killing them (as killing them was Bhaal's job/duty).
Many LE people probably follow Xvim, and try generally to live to the dogma- spread fear, spread destruction- but in reality, don't do much about it. They sacrifice items and their few kills to their God, and take out their anger on people who won't be missed, but usually just walk around the same as everyone else save for that they're thinking about tyranny and how they deserve to lead.
Looking at Lawful Neutral it would either be Kelemvor or Jergal. But both are focused on death and not greed, selfishness and searching for power. Both of them are actually against manipulative behavior.
Hoar was another god i was looking at but the whole vengeful part doesn't really fit in very well with LAWFUL evil in my opinion.
I think Waukeen can have clerics of any alignment in 2e, so a LE Waukeenar might be exactly what you're looking for. Greedy black market schemer, probably takes contracts super seriously, etc.
I can see Kagain definitely worshipping Abbathor whereas an evil leader, depending on the time, either Bane or Xvim, a merchant is a tricky one, logically it would be Waukeen but she isn't evil, maybe Mask, yes he's the God of Thieves, but it isn't illogical for an evil merchant to steal things and sell them at a price, e.g. a fence.
It's like having someone that follow the Red Knight plotting to kill a follower of Tempus.
I never knew they were Talosians, though. Where do they mention this?
Edit: Lastly, about your edit - That would be completely different, as Red Knight is a subordinate to Tempus both mythically (RK's portfolio is just a part of Tempos') and in the divine hierarchy. They also aren't Evil, and one of the trademarks of Evil is that they're unable to work together without jealous, competition, and plotting against each other.
"Talos was close with Auril, had a flirtatious rivalry with Umberlee and a grudging alliance with Malar, who would kill him if he could."
If you force them to give you the bowl they will mention that you're doing a grave mistake and going against Talos. They kill her mother out of 'greed' because they felt that the prices were too high and once they got the bowl they could control the water and get even more money. Both the peasant and the daughter have two different stories, but if you end up taking the daughters side they end up 'admitting' that what she said is true.
[Edited] : I don't know if flirtatious rivalry means that their followers are killing each other.
No evil god that focuses on manipulation, greed and power without causing physical pain and destruction to the people around them.
And I've been thinking about playing a Lawful Evil Cleric, just can't find a deity to follow. Is it ever mentioned if Xzar follows Cyric or Bane?
Tiamat is LE. The Cult of the Dragon worships him, and has clerics. A couple references from the FR wiki:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tiamat
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Cult_of_the_Dragon
One reason Tiamat might work well is dragons love treasure, and hoard it. They're vain, super intelligent, and calculating. So those sorts of draconian traits might appeal to one who lives for the acquisition of wealth.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Velsharoon
Xvim breaks free from his imprisonment beneath Zhentil Keep in Ches (= March) 1369. He does have acolytes since Bane's death during the Time of Troubles (1358). But throughout the Realms Xvim is largely regarded a minor god, paling in comparison to his father. Many Banites convert to Cyric. And Cyric has taken control of the Zhentarim during the time of the BG series. I presume it is Cyric who ordered that Xvim be imprisoned.
Anyway, as to your merchant thing: Waukeen is, I agree, the most likely candidate. I seem to recall that clerics of Bane were supposed to be manipulative as well as destructive, so that would be a point in his favor as well.
I don't know, I tend to make my lawful evil priests clerics of Kossuth, because I think he's a fun god. Worshiping purity (of fire) as an evil character is an interesting choice.
The Red Knight. I'm just not sure if i'll run with Lawful Evil or Lawful Neutral and then just accept evil NPC's into my party. The whole strategy/chess view is quite pleasing, learning to take all details into consideration and finding out peoples weakness and strengths.
It would also make sense from a gameplay perspective as i'll be behind my group (no-reload), giving out orders and shutting down the enemies with my spells (Hold, Silence 10 radius, etc).
I'm quite enjoying the BGEEKit pack (at least the cleric part) and i'm curious what abilities i should be giving a cleric of the Red Knight? If we look at Tempus :
- Gains domain spells relevant to the portfolio of the deity:
- 1st Level: Armor
- 4th Level: Draw Upon Holy Might
- 7th Level: Enchanted Weapon
- 10th Level: Righteous Magic
- 13th Level: Tenser's Transformation
What should i get for my Cleric of the Red Knight? I've got this from a page on the internet :
At 3rd level, holy strategists can cast clairaudience or clairvoyance (as the 3rd-level wizard spells) once per day.
At 5th level, holy strategists can cast divination (as the 4th-level priest spell) once per day.
At 7th level, holy strategists can make three melee attacks every two rounds.
At 7th level, holy strategists can cast consequence (as the 5th-level priest spell) once per day.
At 9th level, holy strategists can cast hallucinatory terrain (as the 4th-level wizard spell) or mass invisibility (as the 7th-level wizard spell) once per day.
At 10th level, holy strategists can cast wizard spells on scrolls from the schools of lesser or greater divination as a mage of the same level. They are automatically able to read such spells and only such spells.
At 13th level, holy strategists can make two melee attacks per round.
At 13th level, holy strategists can call for a war horse, similar to the fashion in which a paladin does. This animal need not be a horse, but it is always a steed of exceptional intelligence for its species and possessing maximum hit points. The holy strategist must find this animal in a memorable way, most often by a specific quest. Holy strategists have bonded not only with war horses, but pegasi, griffons, hippogriffs, wild tigers, and buffaloes.
But the only spell that is in Baldur's Gate would be Clairvoyance.
- 1st Level : ??
- 4th Level : Clairvoyance
- 7th Level : ??
- 10th Level : ??
- 13th Level : Set APR to 2