A different (realistic?) take on fighting styles
Xanthul
Member Posts: 57
I've always been kind of underwhelmed by the fighting style benefits. Other than the first point of 1 handed and 2 handed weapon and the mandatory 2 points in two weapon fighting, they don't really seem to add a lot. In my opinion some of the bonuses that you get for putting points into specific weapons should be tied to fighting styles instead. After all, I would think years of experience fighting with a longsword would help somewhat when it comes the time to wield a scimitar or even a warhammer every once in a while.
With this in mind and with the intent of buffing single weapon fightning (which is actually one of the most realistic and widely used fighting styles) I started wondering what kind of bonuses I would give each style. A few disclaimers first:
- I haven't created a mod for these changes, I don't have the first clue about modding. This is purely an academic exercise intended to get some discussion on fighting styles.
- These changes would be pretty overpowered by themselves - if implemented, they should go hand in hand with some nerfs to the proficiencies for specific weapons (the most immediate target would be removing the +1/2 attack that is obtained through specialization in any weapon.
For ease of use, the bonuses I list for each proficiency point are cumulative with the bonuses for previous points.
Single Weapon (DEX based)
This style of fighting favors the agile warriors, allowing them to dance around their opponent making quick and accurate attacks.
One point (12 DEX required): +1 AC, +2 THACO
Two points (16 DEX required): Doubles DEX based AC, + 1/2 attack, Critical hit on 19 & 20
Comment: I like the idea of this style of fighting being very beneficial to high DEX classes, giving them as much armor as equipping a shield would.
Two Weapon Fighting (DEX based)
This offensive style is reserved for the most gifted warriors. Requiring great coordination as well as adequate strength the two weapon fighter will unleash a barrage of attacks on his enemy.
One point (12 DEX, 10 STR required): same as current bonus.
Two points (14 DEX, 10 STR required): same as current bonus, +1 AC (increased parry chance).
Three points (16 DEX, 10 STR required): same as current bonus, +1/2 attack.
Comment: I think this style is pretty well implemented as is - I just added the extra half attack to compensate for the lost specialization points. I also like the idea of requiring high DEX to master wielding two weapons - a low DEX warrior should not be able to do this at the highest level.
Sword and Shield (STR based)
Though shields only require some strength to be equipped, correctly using it requires advanced training. The knowledge of how to stop or otherwise minimize incoming blows makes the shield user a valuable member to any party.
One point (12 STR required): +1 AC, +2 AC vs missiles, 5% damage reduction
Two points (15 STR required): +1 AC, +2 AC vs missiles, 5% damage reduction, +1/2 attack.
Comment: It always bothered me that shield specialization does pretty much nil. Increased AC and damage reduction fit the theme of the protector and keeping your offense up (the extra 1/2 attack) while wielding a giant tower shield should require some training and strength.
Two handed weapons (STR based)
Reserved for the strongest, most physical warriors, two handed fighting can be the most devastating style. Wielding some of the most fierce weapons in all of Faerun the trained two handed fighter can deliver extraordinarily hard blows to any opponent.
One point (13 STR required): +2 THACO, -2 speed factor
Two points (16 STR required): double STR bonus damage, -2 speed factor, critical hit on 19 & 20, +1/2 attack
Comment: This is the other style that always bothered me. Two handed weapons are severely underwhelming - their damage range hardly justifies using them over any other combination of single handed weapons. This should be the most damaging style along with two weapon fighting, and it should be reserved for the strongest fighters.
What would be your take on fighting styles? Do you think the bonuses of the standard implementation are close to the advantages of each style in real life?
With this in mind and with the intent of buffing single weapon fightning (which is actually one of the most realistic and widely used fighting styles) I started wondering what kind of bonuses I would give each style. A few disclaimers first:
- I haven't created a mod for these changes, I don't have the first clue about modding. This is purely an academic exercise intended to get some discussion on fighting styles.
- These changes would be pretty overpowered by themselves - if implemented, they should go hand in hand with some nerfs to the proficiencies for specific weapons (the most immediate target would be removing the +1/2 attack that is obtained through specialization in any weapon.
For ease of use, the bonuses I list for each proficiency point are cumulative with the bonuses for previous points.
Single Weapon (DEX based)
This style of fighting favors the agile warriors, allowing them to dance around their opponent making quick and accurate attacks.
One point (12 DEX required): +1 AC, +2 THACO
Two points (16 DEX required): Doubles DEX based AC, + 1/2 attack, Critical hit on 19 & 20
Comment: I like the idea of this style of fighting being very beneficial to high DEX classes, giving them as much armor as equipping a shield would.
Two Weapon Fighting (DEX based)
This offensive style is reserved for the most gifted warriors. Requiring great coordination as well as adequate strength the two weapon fighter will unleash a barrage of attacks on his enemy.
One point (12 DEX, 10 STR required): same as current bonus.
Two points (14 DEX, 10 STR required): same as current bonus, +1 AC (increased parry chance).
Three points (16 DEX, 10 STR required): same as current bonus, +1/2 attack.
Comment: I think this style is pretty well implemented as is - I just added the extra half attack to compensate for the lost specialization points. I also like the idea of requiring high DEX to master wielding two weapons - a low DEX warrior should not be able to do this at the highest level.
Sword and Shield (STR based)
Though shields only require some strength to be equipped, correctly using it requires advanced training. The knowledge of how to stop or otherwise minimize incoming blows makes the shield user a valuable member to any party.
One point (12 STR required): +1 AC, +2 AC vs missiles, 5% damage reduction
Two points (15 STR required): +1 AC, +2 AC vs missiles, 5% damage reduction, +1/2 attack.
Comment: It always bothered me that shield specialization does pretty much nil. Increased AC and damage reduction fit the theme of the protector and keeping your offense up (the extra 1/2 attack) while wielding a giant tower shield should require some training and strength.
Two handed weapons (STR based)
Reserved for the strongest, most physical warriors, two handed fighting can be the most devastating style. Wielding some of the most fierce weapons in all of Faerun the trained two handed fighter can deliver extraordinarily hard blows to any opponent.
One point (13 STR required): +2 THACO, -2 speed factor
Two points (16 STR required): double STR bonus damage, -2 speed factor, critical hit on 19 & 20, +1/2 attack
Comment: This is the other style that always bothered me. Two handed weapons are severely underwhelming - their damage range hardly justifies using them over any other combination of single handed weapons. This should be the most damaging style along with two weapon fighting, and it should be reserved for the strongest fighters.
What would be your take on fighting styles? Do you think the bonuses of the standard implementation are close to the advantages of each style in real life?
2
Comments
Personally, I've always HATED the sword and shield one, no one shoots at me long enough to make it worth ANYTHING. Especially since every fight I buff with haste. So it really is pointless to me.
I don't mind two handed weapons as it is but it could do with a buff, as you say the speed bonus is probably the best way to do it. They are somewhat lack luster compared to sword and shield mainly because of their attack speed. . .
I like the improvements to single weapon, I do feel it should make them more vulnerable to ranged weapons however. Your unlikely to be quick enough to dodge an oncoming crossbow bolt. However, against melee weapons, the lighter less encumbered style makes the AC bump make sense.
The Two weapon fighting, same goes for being more vulnerable to ranged attacks. . . A second sword won't save you from an oncoming crossbow bolt.
But that's just my two cents! Overall, very well thought out and I love it!!
@subtledoctor I will check out that mod, thanks for the heads up. About "attacks everywhere" take into account that these half attacks for all styles correspond to the half attack that I would remove from weapon specialization. The rationale for this is what I posted in the first paragraph, I think a warrior could switch from longsword to scimitar in a pinch without losing much efficiency (probably one or two THAC0).
@abazigal5 Yeah, double STR bonus would be overpowered in the current game, no doubt. I just think it would be a suitable bonus - two handed weapons should deliver the most vicious blows and the strongest warriors should get the most benefit from them I think.
@CrevsDaak Don't you feel the current bonuses are a bit underwhelming? 2 AC isn't really that much and I would think that the most agile fighters would get more AC than the clumsier ones, hence the double DEX bonus to AC that I suggested.
Again, keep in mind that these are just for fun and are not intended to be balanced in the current game, only against each other.
There is an optional PNP rule for related weapon bonuses; that is, non-proficiency penalties are halved when using weapons similar to your proficiencies. Like say if you're using a bastard sword when you're proficient in long sword. And a common house rule I've seen carries that over to say if you're specialized in long sword its like being proficient in all other big swords.
Fo dissimilar weapons I think its best to leave it alone. A 10th level fighter has already got an 11 Thac0, which makes them pretty darn effective with any weapon they pick up, proficient or not.
For example : weapon proficiency (cost 1 point, gives you proficiency) (-1/+1)
specialization (costs 1 points, only man at arms can have it (-2) gives +1 attack and +2 damage (+2)
The 3rd edition feats system follows a similar rule , where most combat bonuses follow an attack penalty , and really powerful feats require a higher level (experience itself is already a price to be paid).
Why not limit certain bonuses to a certain level? , Perhaps powerful fighting styles could be slightly weaker than HLA's , but only available at level 12.