Swashbuckler/Mage vs Fighter/Mage?

shylaman

Has anybody keepered a multi-class swashbuckler/mage? Sounds like an awesome multiclass to rival the fighter/mage if you aren't against such "tweaking". The Swashie (10) -> Mage not so much.

Gotural

It's pretty much inferior to the Fighter/Mage in every fighting aspects, but you have the Thief's abilities lick Pick Lock etc.

Plus if you can tweak the Swashbuckler/Mage you can also tweak a Kensai/Mage for example.

Blackraven

Ah the Swashbuckler/Mage multi, possibly my favorite class. @Gotural says you won't be a as good a fighter as a Fighter/Mage, and that's definitely true at the lower levels. Your Thac0 and damage won't be as good as that of a warrior and, what I found most difficult, in BG1 you'll feel a lack of weapon proficiency points for effective dualwielding. However this all changes later on, thanks to the Swashbuckler's bonuses to AC, Thac0 and Damage, and gradually getting enough proficiency points to dualwield. Go for speed weapons (Scimitars make sense) and you won't feel the absence of lvl 13+ warriors' extra APR. You won't get Greater Whirlwind in ToB, but even with Whirlwind you'll be more than fine.

A wonderful class if you have the patience to build it... Essentially a Fighter/Mage/Thief (though obviously without backstab), that only has to divide XP between two classes instead of three.

Demonoid_Limewire

Played one, in the past, but dual, not multi! 15 swash, dual, mage. I chose 15 because this kit gets bonus every 5 levels. And you need some serious points for thief skills. He is terrible for melee, especially since there is no backstab for you, really, and even 2 stars instead of 1 don't make noticeable difference... He NEEDS to be buffed when you face enemies, and it would be a nice idea to try casting tenser's transformation once you get it. Also, despite it is specialized for dualwield, just consider 2h style with staff of the magi. That invisibility is priceless. And you get to equip that weapon with a missile type weapon, too.

ZanathKariashi

IMO, the crimson dart is better for basically every situation, with firetooth for when you need heavy damage hits instead of volume of fire. Or you can dual-wield Belm/Kuudane if you'd rather up-close and personal (swapping SN for MH once you get UAI). Under tensers and with IH that's a respectable 8 attacks at better then fighter thac0, and about the same damage at lower levels, or higher at higher levels.

Unless you need free dispels, the Staff of the magi isn't really that useful IMO once you've popped the Spell-trap for that day. And I'd much rather use the staff of the ram + WWA for anything requiring +4 or higher.

The problem with the kensage is dealing an inconsequential amount more damage then a Swash-mage can, while the swash-mage has utterly superior capabilities, while the kensage just hits a little harder on each melee blow. Gets almost the same number of hit/damage bonuses, only misses out on 1/2 attack, gets WAAAY more AC (enough almost hit the AC cap). Set snares are brutal (and eventually become save or die while dealing massive damage if they survive), detection illusions allows saving spell slots for other things and ticks twice as often as True-sight does. Stealth allows you to ignore needing invisibility spells or wasting a weapon slot on the staff of the magi. The gobs of extra xp from locks/traps allows them to level faster then a Kensage can. Pick-pocket can allow you to get a lot of nice stuff the Kensage has to wait to get. And the Swashage gets 5 more HLA picks then the Kensage does. OR if you removed the xp cap, they get more of them sooner. Spike traps, and time-traps. UAI.

It's literally not even a contest. The kensage just hits things harder, while the swash hits almost as hard, PLUS brings a bunch of other benefits the kensage can't do.

Gotural

Pretty much this. The kensage is better at fighting, but that's what you expect from a fighter.
The swashmage has more utility.

CaloNord

This can also be a question of whether you want to power game or not. If your role playing ANY class combination you want to use for your player character will be viable for you. As long as you give it the appropriate stats and equipment and NPC party members.

The Swashimage is awesome fun. They need some TLC at lower levels but can be really fun. They can fight, they can disarm traps and unlock doors they can set traps and pick pockets. You can use haste and improved invisibility. There's so much flexibility in it.
The Kensai mage has a lot less flexibility but can literally kick the crap out of things. But this has already been mentioned. In the end, any character you feel comfortable with and want to play can work in the game.

FrozenDervish

I've been playing Thief/Mage recently and I've gotta say it's been the most enjoyable experience I've had. I can get by with less party members, solo much easier, and I can have whatever I want from shops that allow theft. So I'd go with Swash/Mage especially if you have rogue rebalancing which will give you Thac0 equivalent to a fighter with 1 less attack per round.

Blackraven

@FrozenDervish, interesting that you mention Rogue Rebalancing. I use that mod all the time but only for the changes it makes to Bards. I don't change the Thief kits because I really like the vanilla Swashy's damage bonus, the vanilla Bounty Hunter's special traps and the way the vanillla Assassin's poison weapon ability works.

FrozenDervish

Ya, I like them as well, but I love the changes that RR gives to each of the kits which gives them a place rather than decide which kit is weaker or stronger than the base class.

ZanathKariashi

RRB is ok....though IMO it didn't change ENOUGH.

Though it was still a good base for making my own tweaks, and saved a lot of time, so I am at least thankful for that.