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Druid Shapeshiffter

TheGreatGodLokiTheGreatGodLoki Member Posts: 93
in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
So, not sure if this is where the post should go but.
Looking around the forums here, everyone is saying the Werewolf kit is lackluster or missing key components. Without modding it to beef it up, what are the current buffs for the Werewolf? Because the BG:EE2 kit description isn't all that helpful on what they get. And the posts around here compare them to the normal werewolves.

Comments

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited July 2014
    Werewolf

    1d6 piercing damage (+7 damage from strength bonus)
    1 AC (-1 with dexterity bonus)
    2 attacks per round
    19 strength
    16 dexterity
    20 % fixed magic resistance. (fixed meaning that you can't change it even if you are wearing items that grant a magic resistance bonus)

    Greater Werewolf

    1d6 piercing damage (+9 damage from strength bonus)
    - 6 AC (-10 with dexterity bonus)
    3 attacks per round
    21 strength
    20 dexterity
    50% fire resistance
    50% cold resistance
    40% fixed magic resistance.
  • CaloNordCaloNord Member Posts: 1,809
    I had the same thing when I played a sorcerer the first time through. It was a little tough the first 5ish levels in BG:EE, by the time you get to level 7 it starts to own in it's own right. . . finish SoA and the party really just gets in the way and steals loot you could sell. A high level sorcerer doesn't need a party. They just cramp his style. ;)

    I felt the same with the Monk. I have never played a shapeshifter because I hear the werewolf abilities don't work like they should. . .
  • TheGreatGodLokiTheGreatGodLoki Member Posts: 93
    I rolled a Monk for both BG 1 and 2. And seeing as 2 starts you off at level 7(?) no idea why, it take a lot of the pain off. Monk seems a tad snowball ish later in the game seeing as he games immunity to normal weapons and all his buffs he gains. I've always wanted to roll the Werewolf, but as I've been told/read he is lackluster compared to the other druid kits.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    TheGreatGodLoki said:

    I rolled a Monk for both BG 1 and 2. And seeing as 2 starts you off at level 7(?) no idea why, it take a lot of the pain off. Monk seems a tad snowball ish later in the game seeing as he games immunity to normal weapons and all his buffs he gains. I've always wanted to roll the Werewolf, but as I've been told/read he is lackluster compared to the other druid kits.

    It just is a different combat style than the other kits.

    Avenger: More of a caster kit. You can shapechange into various forms but that comes later.

    Totemic Druid: Summoner

    Shapeshifter: Tank (lots of defence including magic resistance and later elemental resistances)
  • fish0331fish0331 Member Posts: 197
    but don't some of the equipment slot item bonuses transfer over to werewolf forms? If so, which ones?
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    fish0331 said:

    but don't some of the equipment slot item bonuses transfer over to werewolf forms? If so, which ones?

    Anything but weapons basically should be giving you bonuses. Unless of course those items are giving you a magic resistance bonus. That you won't get. Items that provide stat boosts (unless they are something you activate or drink them) also probably won't provide you with that stat bonus (so like a girdle of fire giant strength). For that last one though I'd have to look into it.
  • TheGreatGodLokiTheGreatGodLoki Member Posts: 93
    Huh, I didn't know Shapeshifters were classified as a "tank" role. Interesting.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    TheGreatGodLoki said:

    Huh, I didn't know Shapeshifters were classified as a "tank" role. Interesting.

    Well that is what I would describe they are best at. I mean you can use them more offensively but they really are a more defensive kit. Especially when you get the Greater Werewolf form.
  • TheGreatGodLokiTheGreatGodLoki Member Posts: 93
    Are they capable of any damage out put? I see that the Lesser Wolf sets your DEX to 16, which is eh for trying to hit much (if you maxed it out at 18).
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited July 2014
    TheGreatGodLoki said:

    Are they capable of any damage out put? I see that the Lesser Wolf sets your DEX to 16, which is eh for trying to hit much (if you maxed it out at 18).

    Dexterity doesn't determine whether or not you hit with melee attacks. Just ranged attacks. The only thing the dexterity does for the werewolf is give it armor class bonuses (or less of a bonus if you dexterity was already above 16) and make its attacks hit a bit faster in a round. But given that you can eventually get the innate ability Draw Upon Holy Might its quite possible to end the game with a werewolf form that has 22 strength and 19 dexterity (in BGEE I mean), so honestly its not that big of a downside.
    Post edited by elminster on
  • TheGreatGodLokiTheGreatGodLoki Member Posts: 93
    Okay, so a werewolf is decent. Now, (off topic) if I wanted to mod them to make them like the werewolf in the game, where would I find one?
  • SionaSiona Member Posts: 79
    Untwinked my greater werewolf has -10 ac. With a weapon in each hand, that will give your greater werewolf 4 attacks per round with NO thac0 penalty. Simply apply desired boosts from there ;)
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    TheGreatGodLoki said:

    Okay, so a werewolf is decent. Now, (off topic) if I wanted to mod them to make them like the werewolf in the game, where would I find one?

    If that is what you are looking for then it might be better to teach yourself to use Near Infinity and then search for the werewolf creature files and make the modifications yourself. I'm not sure there really is a mod out there that sets the werewolf form to exactly what other werewolves in the game have.
  • dstoltzfusdstoltzfus Member Posts: 280
    It sounds like people (including myself) should try *playing* a shapeshifter instead of just going by what we read...
  • TheGreatGodLokiTheGreatGodLoki Member Posts: 93
    I did play about half way though as a Werewolf. I only got half way before I accidently saved over my game with a new one (felt like trying a Wild Mage) then just rolled a DD and play the entire game. Kinda lost my momentum for a Werewolf for a while. Though I may role on for a second run though.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    elminster said:

    TheGreatGodLoki said:

    Okay, so a werewolf is decent. Now, (off topic) if I wanted to mod them to make them like the werewolf in the game, where would I find one?

    If that is what you are looking for then it might be better to teach yourself to use Near Infinity and then search for the werewolf creature files and make the modifications yourself. I'm not sure there really is a mod out there that sets the werewolf form to exactly what other werewolves in the game have.
    I'd recommend to change the spells to take new copy of the Werewolf CRE file instead of modifying it (IIRC they are the same Werewolves as the ones in Balduran's Isle, and they'll reflect the changes too) directly.
    elminster said:

    TheGreatGodLoki said:

    Okay, so a werewolf is decent. Now, (off topic) if I wanted to mod them to make them like the werewolf in the game, where would I find one?

    If that is what you are looking for then it might be better to teach yourself to use Near Infinity and then search for the werewolf creature files and make the modifications yourself. I'm not sure there really is a mod out there that sets the werewolf form to exactly what other werewolves in the game have.
    I'd recommend to change the spells to take new copy of the Werewolf CRE file instead of modifying it (IIRC they are the same Werewolves as the ones in Balduran's Isle, and they'll reflect the changes too) directly.
    If I had enough time, i'd make a weidu mod.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited July 2014
    TheGreatGodLoki said:

    Okay, so a werewolf is decent. Now, (off topic) if I wanted to mod them to make them like the werewolf in the game, where would I find one?

    elminster said:

    If that is what you are looking for then it might be better to teach yourself to use Near Infinity and then search for the werewolf creature files and make the modifications yourself. I'm not sure there really is a mod out there that sets the werewolf form to exactly what other werewolves in the game have.

    CrevsDaak said:



    I'd recommend to change the spells to take new copy of the Werewolf CRE file instead of modifying it (IIRC they are the same Werewolves as the ones in Balduran's Isle, and they'll reflect the changes too) directly.
    If I had enough time, i'd make a weidu mod.

    But even then I'm guessing you won't take on the saving throws or immunity to normal weapons of the werewolf. In the case of the Greater Werewolf you would be lacking the saving throws, immunity to normal weapons and its regeneration.
  • SionaSiona Member Posts: 79
    dstoltzfus said:

    It sounds like people (including myself) should try *playing* a shapeshifter instead of just going by what we read...

    I agree. It is actually balanced just fine in IMO, and is my favorite class to play. I realize the criticism, and I understand it - it doesn't get what it's in-game counterparts get. It's not a sorcerer with HLA spells, sure. But it's actually pretty balanced and a blast to play. I think if you just want a fun playthrough with a class that will surprise you and is plenty powerful, you'll have a blast.
  • TheGreatGodLokiTheGreatGodLoki Member Posts: 93
    Siona said:

    dstoltzfus said:

    It sounds like people (including myself) should try *playing* a shapeshifter instead of just going by what we read...

    I agree. It is actually balanced just fine in IMO, and is my favorite class to play. I realize the criticism, and I understand it - it doesn't get what it's in-game counterparts get. It's not a sorcerer with HLA spells, sure. But it's actually pretty balanced and a blast to play. I think if you just want a fun playthrough with a class that will surprise you and is plenty powerful, you'll have a blast.
    I share the same thoughts with you. I've always enjoyed the Werewolf, and comics based on them. I believe Image Comics did one. I love the lore behind them and the ability to manual shapeshift into them and destroying your enemy's. ^.^
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