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Choice of important spells in ToB?

I'm around quarter through ToB, and I'm having problem figuring out which spells are good and which are not. So far I've learned that straight DPS spells are not worth much (with exception of MM and Melf's, they are good for interrupting - but even they are often worthless when facing enemies that immediately cast number of shield spells on themselves). Crowd Control also has lost much of its value, since it often doesn't work on tough guys, and weak guys, like Yaga-Shura's soldiers or Thay mercenaries, can be pretty much ignored. Maybe I am wrong about damage-dealing spells, but it seems that my fighters deal much more damage than they do, and my mages should be busy dispelling anyway (more on that topic in the 3rd paragraph).

Since I'm not very keen on learning deep nuisances of AD&D, I cannot say how useful buffs are. I suppose that, other than obviously useful Haste and Group Invisibility, most of them are helpful, but my problem is, there are so many of them by now (Anomen's level, what? 24? And my main's a paladin with level 4 spells), by the time I finish casting them all, some of them are already done. Which cleric and mage buffs, both group and single-person, do you find essential?

Summoning creatures seem to be a most viable tactic still, at least. I now have ability to summon some, if not all, of the most powerful ones - cacofiend, solar, planetar. So far I haven't been abusing them, but perhaps I should?

Right now, the most important spells seem to be ones that dispel protections. Here is where I'm quite lost. I'm using practically all of them, from Breach to Khelben's Warding Whip, and often they, too, do not work. Is the only way to deal with enemies that cast complete invulnerability (forgot that spell's exact name) to wait them out? And, when facing foes that do not use it, which dispelling spells are the most effective/important?

Comments

  • Demonoid_LimewireDemonoid_Limewire Member Posts: 424
    Try to fill your spellbook page with simulacrum (the one to which simulacrum belongs, the 7 level it was i think?). Then use planetar (this should be the first HLA to pick). The sequence goes:

    1) Simulacrum.
    2) Summon Planetar.
    3) Use the Planetar's skill "restoration" on your first simulacrum clone.
    4) Have your first simulacrum clone cast summon planetar. Then make him cast simulacrum.
    5) Use your second clone's planetar skill "restoration" on your third clone.
    6) Follow through this pattern until you have 5x clones with 5x planetars.
    7) Unless your opponent uses "earthquake" or an evil summon (like gate), there is no fight you cannot win in mere seconds (these mechanics turn your summoned planetars hostile)

    This is the planetar army exploitation.

    For anticaster techniques, there are some blue colored high level spells. Read their description, there are not many. They make you IMMUNE to magic and magic related damage. Put them in a sequencer or something, with condition "see enemy". Then prepare in another sequencer or contigency spell, containing some spells like breach, dispel or even better the new combat type dispel "remove magic", another high level spell with identical icon such as the 5 level breach, use pierce magic, and try to find "dispelling spells" that say "no rolls to prevent its effect" (this means your enemy has no chance to resist their effect). And keep a quick cast of "HAQUESAR" at the ready, when you are up against a mage. Or divine caster.

    Have a high wisdom on your caster, and utilize the two rest spells. Both are priceless.

    Another good summoning technique is to use divine and arcane spell "gate", to summon fiends, right after casting the "protection from evil 10 radius". With as many people who know it as possible.

    That is the most useful and popular remedies' quicklist to ToB's difficulty battles, and tough-customers spellcasters. Also, if you wish to use better crowd control, before attempting casting such spells, cast on your enemies "Greater Malison", or druid's doom spell. They cripple their chance to resist effects like those.
  • ChapelChapel Member Posts: 21
    edited July 2014
    Thanks, these seem like good advices. I won't use that "planetar exploit", though - it seems really cheap. Still, what you mean is that, basically, one should forego damage dealing spells and focus on summons and dispels, am I correct?


    Have a high wisdom on your caster, and utilize the two rest spells. Both are priceless.

    What do you mean? "Rest" effect from Limited Wish/Wish spells?
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Horrid Wilting is an excellent damage spell. Best part is that it doesn't affect party members.
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    Horrid wilting, time stop, Improved alacrity. It's pretty much all you need.
  • karnor00karnor00 Member Posts: 680
    Chapel said:


    Have a high wisdom on your caster, and utilize the two rest spells. Both are priceless.

    What do you mean? "Rest" effect from Limited Wish/Wish spells?
    One of the options sometimes granted by the Wish spell if you have a high wisdom is the option to instantly rest. It's exactly as if you have rested normally (you can heal up, memorise spells and use once/day abilities again) but you can do it in the middle of a battle, or in a place you can't normally rest. Bear in mind that you don't always get the rest option, so it's not very reliable unless you are happy reloading a lot.


    Personally I don't tend to get much use from alacrity because I typically don't have enough high level spells to really make it shine. Plus I try not to rest too often, so blowing all my spells in the first 5 seconds of a fight isn't very helpful.


    Spells I tend to use most of are:

    Protection removal spells - e.g. khelben's warding whip, breach etc. Spellstrike is particularly good, although it's level 9.

    High level summons - Planetars and devas are particularly good. Mordenkainen's sword is also surprisingly good because it's almost unkillable and thus a great distraction. Your paladin should be able to summon a deva as an ability (assuming you picked that HLA), which is very helpful.

    Chaotic commands - great vs mindflayers in particular, but also in other places.

    Haste and Improved haste.

    Slow - it's area effect, only effects enemies and has -4 to the saving throw.

    Dispel magic/remove magic are great is you have a high enough level caster - typically requires a single class mage/cleric or inquisitor. But it will remove pretty much any enemy protections (and your own as well if you aren't careful tagetting dispel magic), unless they have spell immunity : abjuration (which they will only cast if you have installed the SCS mod).

    Timestop - only if you have a fighter/mage. Otherwise it's much less impressive.

    Greater restoration/heal - Nothing quite as useful as healing over 100 health back to one of your front line fighters.
  • ChapelChapel Member Posts: 21
    Too bad that those healing spells take ages to cast. Right now (I'm in Yaga-Shura's temple) heals are rarel useful in the heat of combat, and I tend to rely on Superior Healing pots (I throw the flowers away first... poor flowers).

    I'll keep it in mind to use Remove Magic more often. So far I've been greatly overlooking it. Dispel Magic isn't too useful for me, since I like to buff up my chars a lot. Although, as I said above, I'm really not sure how useful most of buffing spells (divine stuff, Bless, Protection From Evil, Defensive Harmony, Chant etc.) are.
  • ShadowHunterShadowHunter Member Posts: 143
    chain contingency with 3x horrid wilting + time stop, Improved alacrity = overpowered level over 9000
  • ChapelChapel Member Posts: 21
    Ehm, yeah... by the time I cast them, my party is slaughtered by an enemy caster, impervious against any harm and spamming aoe's on my guys. I have little trouble with enemy fighters and assassins (I doubt anyone has) - it's the mages that can be tough.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited July 2014
    Chapel said:

    Too bad that those healing spells take ages to cast.

    Greater Restoration has a casting time of 1 (very short). Its Heal that takes a long time to cast.
  • Demonoid_LimewireDemonoid_Limewire Member Posts: 424
    Hmmm. Well. It is a good chance to recapitulate. And make a damn list already. Spells that work well, or even cheesy:

    Arcane Category.

    Blind: Can cast on neutral creatures, does not turn hostile

    Larloch's minor drain: can use on doors and containers

    Strength: stacks with itself and other effects that raise strength (buffs)

    Melf's minute meteors: fire those while having an off-hand weapon equipped, they add its damage

    Fire protection: if by using it you exceed 100% fire protection, you heal from fire attacks

    Remove magic: will undo enemy mirror image and project image spells, among other things

    Vampire touch: can use on doors and containers, sometimes it gives much more hp than it should

    Contagion: cast it on someone after ray on enfeeblement, it can kill instantly

    Minor sequencer: wild mage can stack 2 chaos shields

    Wizard eye: select it with group button, order attack on enemy (becomes visible and can lure hostile summons towards enemies)

    Cloudkill: fire from fog of war distance and become invisible right after, or confine enemies in small room

    Feeblemind: can cast on neutral creatures, does not turn hostile

    Spell shield: works agains beholder anti-magic rays, without it being cancelled out

    Sunfire: ignores magic resistance

    Contigency: can cast while game is paused, does not count towards spell/round limit

    Flesh to stone on someone, then stone to flesh, repeat many times for lots of xp

    Mislead: bard decoys can sing, you remain invisible, second gen decoys can attack

    Protection from magic energy: helps against wounds from slayer form

    Protection from magical weapons: protects against mind flayer dreadful ability

    Summon nishruu: drop your items, keep only a wand, have the nishruu attack you until it gets funny charge number; sell for LOOOTS of money!

    Project image: sometimes looses inability to attack, shapechanged/polymorphed ones can attack, second generation images act like simulacrums and can attack

    Spell sequencer: wild mage can stack 3 chaos shields

    Protection from energy: helps against wounds from slayer form

    Simulacrum: if they come from a fighter-mage of fighter/mage, use lesser restore on them to regain levels

    Chain contigency: can cast while game is paused, does not count towards spell/round limit; a wild mage can stack 3 greater chaos shields

    Imrisonment on someone, then freedom, repeat many times for lots of xp

    Shapechange: into mind flayer, no npc or in game item/mechanism has resistance to this creature's ability; you can kill untouchable enemies like the one in thief's guild, or Drizzt's friend to come steal your equipment

    Wish: 1) If you choose protect your party from magic damage many times, most enemies die before you even encounter them 2) Hardiness effect stacks, making your party completely invulnerable 3) The timestop resulting from wish affects even enemies immune to it, like Demogorgon, and lasts longer; combine with improved alacrity and equipped amulet of power and robes of vecna, to unleash a hell of spells onto hapless enemies.

    Globe of blades: use on planetars, with their integrated, passive haste, they wreak havoc in nanoseconds.

    Divine Category:

    Use Blade Barrier, then sanctuary, then go in the middle of some enemy ranks
    Use Globe of Blades, then sanctuary, then go in the middle of some enemy ranks
    Use magic resistance on highly resistant or immune enemies to magic, it drops it to the spell's ammount

    Spells that do NOT undo your INVISIBILITY!!!
    Blade Barrier
    False Dawn
    Holy/Unholy Word
    Greater Command, only on invisible caster
    Limited Wish, Wish
    Nature's Beauty
    Oracle
    Project Image (prepare your assaulting army beforehand at your ease!)
    Repulse Undead
    True Sight

    Do your ideal combinations and go ruin every enemy! Especially with projected images and simulacra, you can dominate the battlefield and fill it up with good ol' cheese! Drown everything in cheese, now!
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229

    Hmmm. Well. It is a good chance to recapitulate. And make a damn list already. Spells that work well, or even cheesy:

    Arcane Category.

    Blind: Can cast on neutral creatures, does not turn hostile

    Larloch's minor drain: can use on doors and containers

    Strength: stacks with itself and other effects that raise strength (buffs)

    Melf's minute meteors: fire those while having an off-hand weapon equipped, they add its damage

    Fire protection: if by using it you exceed 100% fire protection, you heal from fire attacks

    Remove magic: will undo enemy mirror image and project image spells, among other things

    Vampire touch: can use on doors and containers, sometimes it gives much more hp than it should

    Contagion: cast it on someone after ray on enfeeblement, it can kill instantly

    Minor sequencer: wild mage can stack 2 chaos shields

    Wizard eye: select it with group button, order attack on enemy (becomes visible and can lure hostile summons towards enemies)

    Cloudkill: fire from fog of war distance and become invisible right after, or confine enemies in small room

    Feeblemind: can cast on neutral creatures, does not turn hostile

    Spell shield: works agains beholder anti-magic rays, without it being cancelled out

    Sunfire: ignores magic resistance

    Contigency: can cast while game is paused, does not count towards spell/round limit

    Flesh to stone on someone, then stone to flesh, repeat many times for lots of xp

    Mislead: bard decoys can sing, you remain invisible, second gen decoys can attack

    Protection from magic energy: helps against wounds from slayer form

    Protection from magical weapons: protects against mind flayer dreadful ability

    Summon nishruu: drop your items, keep only a wand, have the nishruu attack you until it gets funny charge number; sell for LOOOTS of money!

    Project image: sometimes looses inability to attack, shapechanged/polymorphed ones can attack, second generation images act like simulacrums and can attack

    Spell sequencer: wild mage can stack 3 chaos shields

    Protection from energy: helps against wounds from slayer form

    Simulacrum: if they come from a fighter-mage of fighter/mage, use lesser restore on them to regain levels

    Chain contigency: can cast while game is paused, does not count towards spell/round limit; a wild mage can stack 3 greater chaos shields

    Imrisonment on someone, then freedom, repeat many times for lots of xp

    Shapechange: into mind flayer, no npc or in game item/mechanism has resistance to this creature's ability; you can kill untouchable enemies like the one in thief's guild, or Drizzt's friend to come steal your equipment

    Wish: 1) If you choose protect your party from magic damage many times, most enemies die before you even encounter them 2) Hardiness effect stacks, making your party completely invulnerable 3) The timestop resulting from wish affects even enemies immune to it, like Demogorgon, and lasts longer; combine with improved alacrity and equipped amulet of power and robes of vecna, to unleash a hell of spells onto hapless enemies.

    Globe of blades: use on planetars, with their integrated, passive haste, they wreak havoc in nanoseconds.

    Divine Category:

    Use Blade Barrier, then sanctuary, then go in the middle of some enemy ranks
    Use Globe of Blades, then sanctuary, then go in the middle of some enemy ranks
    Use magic resistance on highly resistant or immune enemies to magic, it drops it to the spell's ammount

    Spells that do NOT undo your INVISIBILITY!!!
    Blade Barrier
    False Dawn
    Holy/Unholy Word
    Greater Command, only on invisible caster
    Limited Wish, Wish
    Nature's Beauty
    Oracle
    Project Image (prepare your assaulting army beforehand at your ease!)
    Repulse Undead
    True Sight

    Do your ideal combinations and go ruin every enemy! Especially with projected images and simulacra, you can dominate the battlefield and fill it up with good ol' cheese! Drown everything in cheese, now!

    I have underlined what I know has been fixed with the EE.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Sunfire no longer bypasses magic resistance.
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