Goodberry tweaks

dreamrider

I've scanned through the previous mentions of Goodberries on the forums, in particular those filed in Feature Requests. Most of the few that are out there seem more complicated or more overpowered than what I would like to suggest.

This is a (hopefully) small change that will smooth the gameplay of Goodberries, and hopefully make them much more appealing as a spell.


1) Could you make it possible to consume multiple Goodberries at once? Either by setting a number upon click, or having a double-click consume 5, or some other mechanic?


I use Goodberries all the time when I have Jaheira, I consider it one of her most useful spells, saving tremendously on potion use and potion waste. I have her cast it every time she is rested, and before resting if she has the spell left over. Then I spread the berry goodness around the group for lots of extra healing potential. However, actually using the Goodberries can be a little tedious, and reading the forums it seems to bother many players even more than it bothers me, to the point where they refuse to use this very useful blessing.


2) Could you make it possible to include Goodberries in the Rest until Healed mechanic? Perhaps you could do this by using any Goodberries available in the Quickslots after the first round of healing spells and the heal point from resting. This would sort of emulate using Goodberries as rations, I guess.

dreamrider

meagloth

1. Of course not. Everybody knows that even though you can instantaneously consume about half a liter of liquid through a metal helmet in the heat of battle, everybody knows you can't eat more than one small berry at once.

2. Could we do this with the creat item special abilities some NPC's have, like jan and eldoth? I would use flashers a lot more if I had them.

elminster

Honestly I would be in favour of making it like 5 health/berry. It wouldn't be as good as a healing potion but it would at least have some use. You pretty much have to use a script to get much out of it. Especially given you now have "heal on rest". But I like your idea too.

dreamrider

At 5 health per berry (and presumably 1 berry per conjure to maintain the current balance) I would be doing exactly what I would prefer not to happen, wasting heal potential. One of the nicest things about berries right now is that I can heal 18 points of hurt exactly with 2 potions and 2 berries, wasting nothing.

I just want to be able to gulp exactly 9 berries at once, if that is the only healing option I have available, instead of taking 30-40 seconds or more working through 9 berries one at a time.

DreadKhan

Lets be careful here... low-level kitless druids are already pretty beastly, we dont want to outright overpower them.

Maybe a 5th level spell, 'BetterBerries', which makes berries that each cure TWO hitpoints (crazy, I know, but bare with), a 7th level spell called 'BestBerries', curing THREE (you read correctly!) hp per berry. Might be overpoeered though.

On a more serious note, you're not gonna come close to breaking druids if goodberries cured 3 hp a pop. They'd still be tedious, few sane people would use it, but it'd be nice to have a spell worthy of 2nd level for Druids.

elminster

dreamrider said:

At 5 health per berry (and presumably 1 berry per conjure to maintain the current balance) I would be doing exactly what I would prefer not to happen, wasting heal potential. One of the nicest things about berries right now is that I can heal 18 points of hurt exactly with 2 potions and 2 berries, wasting nothing.

I just want to be able to gulp exactly 9 berries at once, if that is the only healing option I have available, instead of taking 30-40 seconds or more working through 9 berries one at a time.

Evidently I'm missing something. What is so important about healing exactly 18 health?

Edit: Nevermind I got it. The number isn't important I assume rather instead you are looking for precision.

dreamrider

But WHY let it be tedious. I don't necessarily want more HP per berry, that was someone else's suggestion. Since I've got the habit of having my druid cast for them on every rest and every down day, I usually have plenty of berry HP distributed around the party.

I just want to be able to down a number of those mini-potions in one less-tedious gulp, and a gulp that I can still tailor to the exact amount needed to avoid HP waste.

meagloth

Why don't we just make it scale with level? Make it heal as 1/2 a hit point per level, maybe capping somewhere, though I don't think that would be necessary. Is that OP? 5 hp at lvl 10? Though maybe with fewer berries.

dreamrider

You still lose the ability to tailor the dose to the exact resource amount needed. I don't want to use 20 HP worth of berries, whether it is 20 berries or 4 berries; I want to still be able to use only 17 HP worth of berries, and save the rest.

elminster

Interesting fact about good berries. In PnP you actually enchant actual blueberry's and use those for healing. Also you can only get as much as 8 points of curing in a 24 hour period. Given that a person eating a single berry apparently would be as well nourished as if they ate a meal, I'm assuming if you ingest more than 8 in this 24 hour period you'd end up like Violet in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

meagloth

dreamrider said:

You still lose the ability to tailor the dose to the exact resource amount needed. I don't want to use 20 HP worth of berries, whether it is 20 berries or 4 berries; I want to still be able to use only 17 HP worth of berries, and save the rest.

I see. Um, you know you can't do that with potions or spells either, right? and it's not like that one hit point is ever really going to be a big deal.

dreamrider

Look at my forum avatar! Should I care?? ;-)

ZanathKariashi

Hows this for a compromise on Ability.

Goodberry only makes a single berry per spell, but they cure 8 points, and resets fatigue as if just rested (in lue of a hunger mechanic). (Berries only last for 1 day per level)

Or you could continue to have them only create 2d4 berries at 1 hp each AND each berry resets fatigue.

Fatigue in BG is about as minor as hunger is in PnP, so it seems like a nice compromise without making it TOO powerful.

And if they ever decide to buff the fatigue penalty to proper levels, it would simply make Goodberry that much nicer a spell.

I'm not averse to compromises for things that simply can't be implemented properly, as long as it fits the spirit of the PnP spell.

Demivrgvs

@ZanathKariashi I wanted to do that ages ago but unfortunately it cannot be done. With the current engine fatigue can only be increased, but not decreased or "cured".

meagloth

Demivrgvs said:

@ZanathKariashi I wanted to do that ages ago but unfortunately it cannot be done. With the current engine fatigue can only be increased, but not decreased or "cured".

Then... How does resting work?

Dee

meagloth said:

Demivrgvs said:

@ZanathKariashi I wanted to do that ages ago but unfortunately it cannot be done. With the current engine fatigue can only be increased, but not decreased or "cured".

Then... How does resting work?

Magical code.

CrevsDaak

Dee said:

meagloth said:

Demivrgvs said:

ZanathKariashi I wanted to do that ages ago but unfortunately it cannot be done. With the current engine fatigue can only be increased, but not decreased or "cured".

Then... How does resting work?

Magical code.

To clarify, it removes *all* the Fatigue from the character(s), even if you just rest 8 hours after 5738 bazillion hours of walking.

DreadKhan

Off topic, but didnt IWD have a number of fatigue removeal options? A potion and a spell iirc?

Demivrgvs

@meagloth it's more or less like @Dee says. Resting is the only way to reset fatigue. Opcode 93 modifies fatigue but still cannot decrease or reset it.

CrevsDaak

DreadKhan said:

Off topic, but didnt IWD have a number of fatigue removeal options? A potion and a spell iirc?

But IWD is IWD. I never delved much around IWD, so I am not sure, but it might have an effect opcode to do so, while BG does not have such effect opcode.

DreadKhan

Hence me pointing out that its off topic, but obviously not entirely unrelated. I am sure somebody around these parts knows IWD inside and out.

ZanathKariashi

But how can you increase something without being able to increase it by a negative amount? Since there's obviously effects that apply different amounts of fatigue. Is there some block in place to prevent negative numbers?

Or how about setting the value? I noticed in OP93 it has an increment, set, and set % option. I suppose it would mostly depend on which value it looks at for the setting. Since you could in theory set % to 0? or would it be 100% for no fatigue?

Demivrgvs

@ZanathKariashi if you want the technical details you can find them here , look the 3rd post.

Short story: unless the exe is modified to allow more customization, the current engine do not allow to decrease the fatigue stat.

Loremaster

I'm with @dreamrider. Make it possible to consume multiple goodberrys at once, preferably up to 8/day as @elminster points out to be the maximum allowed per day. This request is just for gameplay convenience, nothing else, it wouldn't add any properties to goodberrys or anything, just smothering game play a bit.

dreamrider

I have often used over 8 per day in vanilla, and in 1.1. After all, Druid can cast Goodberry multiple times upon waking, and the berries last a good long time, if not forever (not sure if the original AD&D time limit on the berries is implemented in BG).

In previous plays I have usually had every party character carrying a full sack of Goodberries (10?) fairly soon after Jaheira joined the party. It is just a pain to have to consume them one at a time when fixing up a 4-5 HP wound.

An additional point. With the precision treatment available through Goodberries, one can maximize the benefits of resting (by leaving just one HP uncured before rest), minimize expenditures for rent, and maximize the impact of regular healing potions by eliminating over heals.