Korgan proficiencies: evil party

kissoff

Korgan just turned level 14 and I got an extra proficiency slot that is puzzling me.

Right now he has:
Axe +++++
dual-wielding ++
warhammer +

Ultimately, I intend using the usual Axe of the Unyielding+Crom Faeyr. Does it add anything to advance in the warhammer slots? or should i go for the 3 slot on dual-wielding.

At the same time I was thing of having him to carry a ranged weapon too and longbow seems like a good choice (just because no one else in the team uses one). Then again I could stay with the throwing axe.

What would you guys do?

tennisgolfboll

Bow is terrible for him. He cant specialise. Throwing axe he can grandmaster!

Id say as soon as you get crom fayer it would be sweet to have as many points in warhammer as possible after getting atleast two pts in two weapon style.

Sidenote, korgan is so funny and awesome

tennisgolfboll

I best be paid well fer this

CaloNord

I've got mine dual wielding Flail of Ages and Frost reaver which works well for him at the moment. Two in dual wielding the rest in axe and flail for me, I'll finish them all eventually.

elminster

Two-Weapon Style is probably your best bet. It will improve his Thac0 with it by 2. Either way though with grandmastery in axes and ** in two-weapon style he is pretty set already.

tennisgolfboll

elminster said:

Two-Weapon Style is probably your best bet. It will improve his Thac0 with it by 2. Either way though with grandmastery in axes and ** in two-weapon style he is pretty set already.

Last pip in two hand only increase thaco on the off hand is pretty weak. Id say after two pts go grandmaster.

Oh and FOA is great on korgan. Slow those bosses down.

Axe and warhammer is sweet to

kissoff

You are right @tennisgolfboll‌. The 3rd pip in two hand is not so great. I will go for the warhammer.

Thank you all.

elminster

tennisgolfboll said:

Last pip in two hand only increase thaco on the off hand is pretty weak. Id say after two pts go grandmaster.

Its still 1 better Thac0 than what you'd get by getting specialisation (and hitting is more important than the minor damage difference). Plus its not like you can't put more towards warhammers later (there is another 8 points between level 15 and max level). Grandmastery on an offhand weapon really doesn't offer that much to begin with since it doesn't add APR. The main thing putting an extra point into two-weapon style does is if you want to use a weapon that you don't have proficiency in on your offhand, it cuts the Thac0 penalty by 1/3 (-4 vs -6). This gives Korgan more options.

Plus the thac0 bonus is more valuable because it actually benefits your axe use. Until you get Crom Faeyr (late SoA) using axes on both of his hands (Frostreaver, Stonefire, etc) is your best bet.

vish

Axes are best for him, Frostreaver+Stonefire, for a long time until you get a Crom Faeyr and Flail of Ages. That is also replaced later on with Axe of the Unyielding +5. Usually in ToB I have him using that Axe and Flail of Ages. I've never had a frontliner in my party not dual wielding or just a 2hander. I usually avoid putting points into Warhammers wiith him because the Flail is much better in ToB, and it is a good weapon in SoA. Crom Faeyr is usually given to Valygar since his proficiencies aren't THAT important as he can only put 2 points in each. You lose some power in SoA (a good trade off IMO as you can give him Celestial Fury @25 strength,) but you're much better off in ToB this way. Also Valygar gets replaced by Sarevok in ToB.

kissoff

@vish: my charname uses the Flail of Ages (f/m) with Belm for the moment (stil in SoA). Hexxat backstabs with the celestial fury. Dorn has the abyssal blade. Korgan is having the 2 axes. Viconia the hammer of the thunderbolts OR mace of disruption. I try to avoid conflicts however I am not sure what to do with Viconia in ToB since Crom Faeyr will probably go to Korgan.

Any suggestions?

elminster

You could just switch her to a sling at that point.

vish

Well, Crom Faeyr should be replaced in ToB eventually. There's a number of +5 weapons out there that are better: Storm Star +5, Runehammer +5, Angurvadal +5, Foebane +5, Spectral Brand +5. The Answerer +4 is also better than Crom Faeyr. 25 Strength is largely overrated. I prefer utility over pure damage in ToB.

I usually give Viconia whatever weapon is lying around. Which is usually the Runehammer, Mass Cure+Fire Giant Strength once per day, among other bonuses (Immunity to Fear, Negative Plane Protection, and it stomps undead.) A Cleric's Swiss Army Knife is what I call it.

If you're using Flail of Ages and I would probably assume either Foebane or Angurvadal for your PC... I would suggest giving Korgan the AoU +5 and The Answerer. The Answerer will only lose effectiveness on certain fights in ToB being a +4 weapon, and it's utility is massive with it's on hit effects, minus 15% magic resist+minus 2 AC. Switch out The Answerer for probably Foebane if you're not using it on your PC.

Your choice of weapons is what makes it difficult. I normally give my PC fighters 2handed weapons. Soul Reaver +4 or the Vorpal Sword are what I use in SoA. Or be a cheap bastard and UAI with a Fighter/Thief dual class and rock The Holy Avenger.

EDIT: There are mods out there that improve some of your favorite weapons from SoA in ToB. I don't have a list of the items but I know one them is Celestial Fury and it makes it a +4 or +5 weapon. I think they also improved Soul Reaver and made it into an "Evil Carsomyr."

elminster

vish said:

Well, Crom Faeyr should be replaced in ToB eventually. There's a number of +5 weapons out there that are better: Storm Star +5, Runehammer +5, Angurvadal +5, Foebane +5, Spectral Brand +5. The Answerer +4 is also better than Crom Faeyr. 25 Strength is largely overrated. I prefer utility over pure damage in ToB.

Storm Star isn't better as an offhand weapon. It doesn't give any bonus to your main hand weapon whatsoever. Runehammer likewise doesn't make a great offhand weapon compared to Crom Faeyr (even if you plan on using its once a day ability frankly). Angurvadal only gives 22 strength. Foebane +5 doesn't currently give any bonuses whatsoever against any of the specific creatures it lists (its a known bug). So even if its extra damage was being applied to your main hand weapon it still wouldn't be worth it. The problem with the Answerer is that if you are already getting registered hits against the target its likely going to be dead soon anyways. Plus if you are using it as an offhand weapon then that is only 2 hits a round at max.

tennisgolfboll

elminster said:

tennisgolfboll said:

Last pip in two hand only increase thaco on the off hand is pretty weak. Id say after two pts go grandmaster.

Its still 1 better Thac0 than what you'd get by getting specialisation (and hitting is more important than the minor damage difference). Plus its not like you can't put more towards warhammers later (there is another 8 points between level 15 and max level). Grandmastery on an offhand weapon really doesn't offer that much to begin with since it doesn't add APR. The main thing putting an extra point into two-weapon style does is if you want to use a weapon that you don't have proficiency in on your offhand, it cuts the Thac0 penalty by 1/3 (-4 vs -6). This gives Korgan more options.

Plus the thac0 bonus is more valuable because it actually benefits your axe use. Until you get Crom Faeyr (late SoA) using axes on both of his hands (Frostreaver, Stonefire, etc) is your best bet.

Nah going from 2 to 3 pts gives thaco for both hands and damage. And korgans to hit is very low. He will hit most things easily esp if fully buffed in a hard fight. But you cant get enough damage. And again its only thaco for offhand. Last point in two weapon style should come after mastery to your weapon.

tennisgolfboll

Mainchar with FoA and korgan. Sounds like my type of gaming!! Have fun roflstomping

elminster

tennisgolfboll said:

elminster said:

tennisgolfboll said:

Last pip in two hand only increase thaco on the off hand is pretty weak. Id say after two pts go grandmaster.

Its still 1 better Thac0 than what you'd get by getting specialisation (and hitting is more important than the minor damage difference). Plus its not like you can't put more towards warhammers later (there is another 8 points between level 15 and max level). Grandmastery on an offhand weapon really doesn't offer that much to begin with since it doesn't add APR. The main thing putting an extra point into two-weapon style does is if you want to use a weapon that you don't have proficiency in on your offhand, it cuts the Thac0 penalty by 1/3 (-4 vs -6). This gives Korgan more options.

Plus the thac0 bonus is more valuable because it actually benefits your axe use. Until you get Crom Faeyr (late SoA) using axes on both of his hands (Frostreaver, Stonefire, etc) is your best bet.

Nah going from 2 to 3 pts gives thaco for both hands and damage. And korgans to hit is very low. He will hit most things easily esp if fully buffed in a hard fight. But you cant get enough damage. And again its only thaco for offhand. Last point in two weapon style should come after mastery to your weapon.

Mastery with your weapon will come at the same time that you could get specialisation with the third point in two-weapon style. The only difference at that point would be +3 damage for the character with mastery for their offhand hammer (and the next time you get a proficiency point this is likely to become a 1 damage difference). But it makes more sense to put the extra point towards *** earlier in this case because it benefits a weapon you are actually going to be using throughout chapter 2/3/4/5.

kissoff

elminster said:

You could just switch her to a sling at that point.

Viconia's probably better with ranged weapons, but with such a low AC I don't mind having her getting her hands dirty in melee combat. Right now she's a wildcard, depending on the opponent and how well I can protect Hexxat & Edwin.

tennisgolfboll

elminster said:

tennisgolfboll said:

elminster said:

tennisgolfboll said:

Last pip in two hand only increase thaco on the off hand is pretty weak. Id say after two pts go grandmaster.

Its still 1 better Thac0 than what you'd get by getting specialisation (and hitting is more important than the minor damage difference). Plus its not like you can't put more towards warhammers later (there is another 8 points between level 15 and max level). Grandmastery on an offhand weapon really doesn't offer that much to begin with since it doesn't add APR. The main thing putting an extra point into two-weapon style does is if you want to use a weapon that you don't have proficiency in on your offhand, it cuts the Thac0 penalty by 1/3 (-4 vs -6). This gives Korgan more options.

Plus the thac0 bonus is more valuable because it actually benefits your axe use. Until you get Crom Faeyr (late SoA) using axes on both of his hands (Frostreaver, Stonefire, etc) is your best bet.

Nah going from 2 to 3 pts gives thaco for both hands and damage. And korgans to hit is very low. He will hit most things easily esp if fully buffed in a hard fight. But you cant get enough damage. And again its only thaco for offhand. Last point in two weapon style should come after mastery to your weapon.

Mastery with your weapon will come at the same time that you could get specialisation with the third point in two-weapon style. The only difference at that point would be +3 damage for the character with mastery for their offhand hammer (and the next time you get a proficiency point this is likely to become a 1 damage difference). But it makes more sense to put the extra point towards *** earlier in this case because it benefits a weapon you are actually going to be using throughout chapter 2/3/4/5.

Korgans off hand thaco is so good and the enemies have so easy to hit until crom fayer is available this is simply not true. But once he get crom fayer and is allready master he will feel the difference between master or not. He will not feel the difference on last point on two weapons. He can get it after he has mastered his weapons of choice since then there is nothing better left but not before if really wants to optimize fighters

kissoff

@tennisgolfboll‌ @elminster‌ I really enjoy the pip argument. It makes me think that my question was a valid one with not an obvious answer. Myself, I would rather leave the 3rd pip for later as it seems that Korgan's only problem is protections that the targets might have, rather than difficulty to hit. In some cases, more dmg would be nice as well.

Regarding the off-hand weapon though, I must admit i had the wrong mindset all along. I spent the entire chapters 2-4 with my mainchar having a +3 weapon as an off-hand (just because of the +3) while I could have used Belm. So, any suggestions for good off-hand weapons are very welcome.

PS. I've played the original game a lot but never ToB, so I am not familiar with the weapons & opponents there.

tennisgolfboll

It a very small difference, korgan is awesome either way.

But to put it simply at level 15 (which was your next level for a proficiency point) its easy to get a thac0 that makes korgan hit with his offhand weapon except for critical misses (items and buffs for any boss) and in ToB the extra damage is sweet, and on some late bosses and enemies.

Best off hand weapon is the defender of easthaven (on mainchar if he is also a warrior using flails). Belm is sweet for the extra attack to for anyone.

kissoff

my maincar is the scimitar/flail/katana type of guy.. (gnome fighter/illusionist).

I am already in the Underdark. Defender of easthaven seems weak at this stage, but I might be wrong.

elminster

kissoff said:

my maincar is the scimitar/flail/katana type of guy.. (gnome fighter/illusionist).

I am already in the Underdark. Defender of easthaven seems weak at this stage, but I might be wrong.

Defender of Easthaven can let Korgan get 60% physical damage resistances if its combined with Hardiness (Higher Level Ability). So its definitely one of the better off hand weapons.

tennisgolfboll

Yeah the defender advantage is its 20 dmg resist, along with shorty saving throws well korgan is a 1 man army.

But since mainchar death is gameover giving high dmg resist is sweet. Ofc stoneskins etc is powerful with your class

tennisgolfboll

Gnome is such a great race for that class choice you did. Save vs spells +5 with high con is epic! (Fighter/mage)

TJ_Hooker

Does ayone else use Crom Faeyr in the main hand? I had Korgan using Crom + Belm in the offhand. I figured that way he'd have max APR with max STR damage bonus. He was my #1 recipient of Improved Haste, and for HLAs it was a mix of Critical Strike and Hardiness. Guy was a veritable meat grinder.

tennisgolfboll

Korgan knows killing. Alot of viable ways to use him.

tennisgolfboll

Pretty cool to give him crom fayer and the runehammer and greater ww. Double warhammers, 10 attacks. Alot of death

kissoff

He is by far the 1st in kill % of the party and i don't see that changing. I should maybe give him bad weapons after all to make it a fair competition for the rest of the party.