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Dual Class Vs Multiclass, pros and cons for those of us who are new

perfectblueperfectblue Member Posts: 10
Back when the BG series first released I was very young, and as such did not have a good grasp on multiclass vs dual class and the advantages/disadvantageous each offer.

I would like to come into BG Enchanced armed with a much better understanding of why I would select one over another. Thanks in advance.
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  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    They're both for munchkin sissies.
    Space_hamsterSulla
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    Dual class is probably more powerful later on, but suck for a possibly long period of time. Multiclass is useful all the time, but possibly not as powerful later depending on what you optimally want as a character. If you only want a small portion of the skills/benefits of a certain class, then dual class will be better once you get your old class abilities back. But if you want to have the same prowess in two classes anyway, then dualling would be horrible.

    And dual class fighters get grand mastery, whereas multiclass fighters can only get specialize.
  • raywindraywind Member Posts: 289
    Why multi when you can dual, i cant figure any reason for it exept that its easier for new players that dont know where everything is
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    raywind said:

    Why multi when you can dual, i cant figure any reason for it exept that its easier for new players that dont know where everything is

    Not all races can dual-class?

    Some people don't want to stop leveling as a particular class and would prefer to have equal abilities in both or all three of their classes?

    Multi-class can be three classes at once instead of just two?
    RAM021
  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208
    hmmmm, was wondering, you're saying that multi class chars can't get mastery/grand mastery, so what's the point of fighter/cleric/mage as opposed to just mage/cleric?
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    In TOB, there is one huge benefit to multi-classing: HLA. A dual class fighter/mage gets mage HLA only. A multi-class fighter/mage can also unleash whirlwind attacks; multi-class thief gets UAI ability, ability to set devastating traps, etc.

    If you want your F/T to be able to backstab then use a timestop scroll then start whirlwinding Carsomyr, etc. that only happens if you multi-class.
    RAM021
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Bjjorick said:

    hmmmm, was wondering, you're saying that multi class chars can't get mastery/grand mastery, so what's the point of fighter/cleric/mage as opposed to just mage/cleric?

    Fighter/mage/cleric can get Specialization in weapons, and has better THAC0

    RAM021
  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208
    so you're saying it's mostly pointless to play a fighter/mage/cleric.....honestly wish they allowed thief/mage/cleric, i seem to remember playing that in one of the dnd games on sns (4 party group, but i did a solo run at one point)
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Bjjorick said:

    so you're saying it's mostly pointless to play a fighter/mage/cleric.....honestly wish they allowed thief/mage/cleric, i seem to remember playing that in one of the dnd games on sns (4 party group, but i did a solo run at one point)

    ...No. That's not what I'm saying. How would hitting more often and dealing more damage ever be pointless?

    RAM021
  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208
    @schneidend well, the weapons you get with the fighter/cleric/mage are kinda lacking. i can understand not the bow, but it would be nice if at least a short sword/long sword if nothing else. maybe it's just me, but i was hoping for a little more. Especially considering that it takes 3 times as long to level up lol. It would take a long time for the char to become powerful. i'm trying to do a run right now and maybe i'm playing the char wrong?

    and which do you think is better, fig/the/mage or fig/cle/mage? i want to create a char i have in my mind, but guess it's not possible.

    and last thought, i can understand a thief not being able to be lawful good, but is there any kits that would allow you to? like maybe that would get rid of pick pocket as everything else i thief can do has uses that wouldn't get around the law (disarming traps in a dungeon/ hiding in shadows for combat purposes/ etc).
  • perfectblueperfectblue Member Posts: 10
    Malbortus said:

    A dual-class A->B is essentially a full class B with some abilities of A. (Done right, it's always better than a single-class B.)

    A multi-class A/B is A and B at the same time. Compared to a dual-class A->B, the multi-class would be better at A and worse at B.

    Thanks Malbortus, could you or anyone else chip in & clarify by providing a concrete example of a dual class. What class you would initially start as, and what level you dual class out to your 2nd class and why? What abilities are you trying to pick up etc. How does this affect your initial stat rolls. If you were a fighter/mage you would have to moderate stats between intelligence and strength, which are opposite ends of the spectrum. Seemingly becoming a jack of all trades master of none.
    Zalpha
  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208
    also, it's up to you to choose which level you choose to dual class. If you want to go to a lvl 20 thief then dual to a warrior you can, but you'll start out as a lvl 1 warrior and you don't get any of your thief abilities until you reach level 21 as a warrior. this is to prevent dual classing from being cheap. If you don't reach level 21 by the end of the game, you'll never unlock your thief abilities.

    Special note. You level up as a fighter to level 10, and put all your points in daggers. IF YOU DON'T PUT ANY POINTS IN DAGGERS AS A THIEF, once you unlock your warrior abilities (by reaching lvl 11 as a thief, your points will still be there. So this can be used to be able to use weapons a class normally cant, such as making a warrior, puting points into long bows/composite bows, then dual to a thief and once you reach the level to unlock your warrior abilities, your thief can now use long bows.

    Do a run through of the game and try it out and all this will make sense.
  • MedillenMedillen Member Posts: 632
    edited August 2012
    Chances are, if you are new to BGEE, don't try either dual classing or multiclass ^_^

    And if I might say a good word of advice... The best way to understand how those two works... Is by creating virtual characters and CLUAConsole (it's a cheat) them to higher level, to see what they can actually do and how long that takes. (careful, to dual class you need minimum stats for the new class and being human. I've tried dual classing a gnome. Didn't realise it wasn't possible until level 11 mage. I hate them now) That will clear most of the understanding about the mechanism. For more advanced tips... pick any post up, they gave good depth on it.
  • perfectblueperfectblue Member Posts: 10
    edited August 2012
    Bjjorick, thats a lot of help thanks.

    My intention was to begin the game as a dwarf illusionist and then switch to one of the fighter kits around level 8 or so. From what I can remember dwarfs specifically gain a bonus in illusion magic, and it would be helpful to have as a fighter.
  • MedillenMedillen Member Posts: 632
    edited August 2012
    You mean gnome right ? Dwarf can't play mage I think... let alone dual class

    EDIT : you NEED to be HUMAN to dual class (trust my experience of my gnome i couldn't dual >.>)
  • BjjorickBjjorick Member Posts: 1,208
    perfectblue, so you only want a level 8 mage? i don't think i said it but you can only dual class once, so once you do it, whatever you've done in the other class is all that you'll ever get. i need more experience dual classing myself, but i'm trying a fighter/cleric/mage walkthrough at the moment, and hoping i don't mess up. :)
  • Space_hamsterSpace_hamster Member Posts: 950
    IMO single classes have more potential ultimate power, though a Gnome Illusionist/thief becomes very powerful, especially with 19 int.

    Munchkin indeed!
  • ChippyChippy Member Posts: 241

    Back when the BG series first released I was very young, and as such did not have a good grasp on multiclass vs dual class and the advantages/disadvantageous each offer.

    I would like to come into BG Enchanced armed with a much better understanding of why I would select one over another. Thanks in advance.

    Regarding dual classing:
    It's good to have played the game once so you know what areas you can gain XP in for the reasons stated.
    If you want to really roleplay, then knowing the class xp tables is essential as you can plan ahead. An example would be Mage>Thief, the mage requires more XP to level up, the thief less. So you can level up to cast level 9 spells as a mage, then have enough xp left in the game (based on the cap) to surpass that level as a thief.

    Malbortus
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    edited August 2012
    Thanks Malbortus, could you or anyone else chip in & clarify by providing a concrete example of a dual class. What class you would initially start as, and what level you dual class out to your 2nd class and why? What abilities are you trying to pick up etc. How does this affect your initial stat rolls. If you were a fighter/mage you would have to moderate stats between intelligence and strength, which are opposite ends of the spectrum. Seemingly becoming a jack of all trades master of none.
    I like to start as a Thief with >=17 STR and 18 DEX, then dual to fighter at level 9. At level 9 I just reach 4x backstab, and have enough skill points to max out 2 thief skills.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Bjjorick said:

    @schneidend well, the weapons you get with the fighter/cleric/mage are kinda lacking. i can understand not the bow, but it would be nice if at least a short sword/long sword if nothing else. maybe it's just me, but i was hoping for a little more. Especially considering that it takes 3 times as long to level up lol. It would take a long time for the char to become powerful. i'm trying to do a run right now and maybe i'm playing the char wrong?

    and which do you think is better, fig/the/mage or fig/cle/mage? i want to create a char i have in my mind, but guess it's not possible.

    and last thought, i can understand a thief not being able to be lawful good, but is there any kits that would allow you to? like maybe that would get rid of pick pocket as everything else i thief can do has uses that wouldn't get around the law (disarming traps in a dungeon/ hiding in shadows for combat purposes/ etc).

    Cleric multi-classes can use flails and morningstars, which have some awesome instances in BG2.
  • e3r4t5yne3r4t5yn Member Posts: 42
    edited August 2012
    Dual is ideal for BG2: start with basic class, reach the required level, dual then and get your PC complete dualing in several hours (there's plenty exp. around everywhere).

    As far as exp. gathering in BG1 is much slower than in BG2, dualing becomes hard enough... the way I used for FAST dualing into a mage in BG1 is the following:

    * Temporary leave all your party members and move alone to the "Angheg Area" (anghegs are respawning there periodically);
    * Use scrolls and wand of fire to cope with anghegs (each worth 975 exp.);
    * Recharge wand of fire in the nearest "Friendly Arm Inn" (just sell one charge wand and buy it again);
    * When necessary exp. is gathered, return to your party members (if any, of course) and rejoin them.
    KirinaldoRAM021
  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    quick review of class balance in bg series

    multi rox
    pure sux
    dual sux

    3 exceptions:
    offensive spellcasters go pure
    extreme powerplayers go dual(doubtful benefits though)
    solo players go whatever


    TL;DR if in doubt - go multiclass.
    10thLichDinsdalePiranha
  • perfectblueperfectblue Member Posts: 10
    e3r4t5yn said:

    Dual is ideal for BG2: start with basic class, reach the required level, dual then and get your PC complete dualing in several hours (there's plenty exp. around everywhere).

    As far as exp. gathering in BG1 is much slower than in BG2, dualing becomes hard enough... the way I used for FAST dualing into a mage in BG1 is the following:

    * Temporary leave all your party members and move alone to the "Angheg Area" (anghegs are respawning there periodically);
    * Use scrolls and wand of fire to cope with anghegs (each worth 975 exp.);
    * Recharge wand of fire in the nearest "Friendly Arm Inn" (just sell one charge wand and buy it again);
    * When necessary exp. is gathered, return to your party members (if any, of course) and rejoin them.

    Is that how many dual class characters gain the necessary experience required? If so I may have to rethink this idea since I will mainly be playing this co-op. And it will be no fun for my other friends to have to be dismissed several times while I go power level and get ahead of them and they are dismissed from the party.
  • lDanielHolmlDanielHolm Member Posts: 225
    It's not necessary to do so to get the XP required. There is enough XP that even split six ways, hitting the 161,000 XP cap is more than possible without farming respawns. I've heard numbers quoted as 1.75 million XP in BG+TotSC, but I honestly don't know.

    The main thing is not to swap party members (as they are essentially pits of XP you won't get back).
  • kilroy_was_herekilroy_was_here Member Posts: 455
    As has been said before only humans can dual class. However, what I don't think has been mentioned is that only non-humans can multiclass.

    IMO multiclassing is easier to play as because once you pick the class there's nothing else you need to worry about other than leveling somewhat more slowly. For a new player however you might want to avoid multiclass combinations like fighter/mage since their class roles are so different. Multiclassing with 3 classes is probably too much for a beginner too because of the relatively low abilities you will get from each class. As a bonus however a multiclass in TOB can obtain the high level abilities of each class you have, with the following caveat: you can only pick a HLA that matches the level you just gained. So if your multiclass fighter/thief gained a thief level you can choose use any item, if they gain a fighter level you can pick whirlwind. Wow, writing all this makes me think multiclassing is more complicated that I remembered.

    The one real problem with dual classing is the crippling weakness it gives you until your second class outlevels the first. If you are a level 5 fighter and dualclass into a thief you lose your weapon proficiencies, attack bonuses and can't even equip weapons or armor not allowed to thieves. Basically, you really are a level 1 thief running around in a level 5 party hoping that the rest of the group can carry you until you become a level 6 thief, one level higher than the class you set aside. Once that happens you get all of your old abilities etc. back but can never level the old class again. According to my 2e rulebook, in pnp you were actually allowed to use your old classes abilities in an emergency but if you did your character gained no XP for that day. I suppose they simplified that for gameplay reasons.
  • Dragonfolk2000Dragonfolk2000 Member Posts: 377
    I like multi-class more since it lets me be a thief/x. Vanilla BG2 lacks thieves that level up (save for Jan) so I normally play a thief, multi-class thief, or fighter dual-classed into thief if I don't want to pick up Jan. It's almost a necessity to do so in BG2. BG1 has a fair number of thieves though so it shouldn't matter as much there.

    I really really hope they add some thieves (kits or otherwise) into BG2:EE that aren't gonna be lost for story reasons and aren't dual-classed out of thief.
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