3rd Edition class restrictions!

Washcloth_Repairman

I'd like a combo of some of the class changes made in 3rd Ed. I like in how 2nd Ed if you're multi classed you gain xp in both classes instead of just one and then choosing a class to level, and I also liked that classes leveled at different rates. What I don't like about 2nd Ed is that specialist mages can't dualclass and some classes are race restricted. For example (if memory serves) Gnomes MUST be illusionists. They can't even be generic mages. And let's be honest, Illusionists suck. Loosing Wail of the Banshee is just blah.

I'd like to have no (or at least less) race restrictions. Why can't I be a Gnome Paladin? Breavon Wildwanderer has paladins, surely! Or a Halfling Necromancer/Cleric of Talos?

LadyRhian

All of that was in the original pen and paper rules, though. Although Baldur's Gate didn't implement class level limits for non-humans (generally, non-humans were only unrestricted as thieves, everything else had a level limit). It was one way to balance the bonuses that non-humans got to their stats.

mercyfulfate1988

The original 2nd ed considered racial stereotypes. Many gnomes are illusionists just like many Mexicans are gardeners. Gnomes are small and not strong so being a paladin was typically out of the question. I always thought of the race restrictions as guidelines when I was a DM. If a player came to me with a really cool character with a good background I would usually allow it. I can totally see lifting these restrictions as the main character from BG is far from normal for many reasons.

Cheesebelly

But what about Mazzy which is an almost-paladin in the first place?

Or half-elves and elves for that fact, why can't they be either Paladins or Monks? I never got that really, could someone illuminate this for me please?

Crawley

Mazzy was special - that's one thing. Also technically she was a fighter, she did not get any paladin bonus, divine boons etc. She was just saying "I want to be like a Paladin, I'll become one".

I believe that for example Paladins belong to a very hermetic society. It's like on one hand no one else apart from humans thought of having holy knight orders (maybe because other races are either too laid-back in those things or are so close with their deities, they don't need such special formation), and on the other human paladins don't want other races to belong. I know it's a bit racist and so, but that's how Paladins are - they are very traditional and though they may not have anything against other races, they also don't want them to become paladins.

Silence

@mercyfulfate1988: I usually let a player pick any class, provided he had a good reason for doing so. Dwarves could be rangers, for instance, because caves and mountains are as natural a setting as forests and grasslands. Elves could be druids because they were highly attuned to nature. It wasn't game-breaking...many people played humans anyway.

Interestingly, BG2 also 'broke' the rules a few times to create cool characters. Aerie is a multi-class Cleric/Mage, which is prohibited for the elf race. Anomen is a dual class fighter/cleric despite not meeting the stat requirements. If Blackguard turns out to be another paladin kit (still not sure), Dorn will be just be one more item in a long list of rules violations. And I'm okay with that - they're all great characters!

That said I think fan-made mods to remove these are a great idea. But I don't think it's necessary to remove these restrictions from the game. To do otherwise would funnel players into a small amount of race/class combinations. A half-orc (+1 Str/Con) paladin or ranger is superior to the human variety in every respect, for example. As @LadyRhian said, there is a need to balance things out, since humans literally get almost no advantage.

Xavioria

@mercyfulfate1988 I LOLed so hard when I read the first sentence!! Very bold sir!!

Back to the topic, I personally think that half human races should be able to be paladins because they ARE half humans. I understand that some human paladins are very traditional (not necessarily racist lmao) and wouldn't allow it, but I think other exceptions could be made. That, and the PC grew up as a human, so I think the PC should have a bit more leeway when considering classes (although not too much).

Also, I would absolutely love A Mazzy Paladin. I believe Spellholdstudios was working on a mod for her to become a paladin within the game, and I usually use Level 1 NPC's to make her a Cavalier because I feel like it fits her well enough (although perhaps that is a bit overkill for her)

Lastly, I do believe Dorn will be a fighter kit. If I'm wrong though, and he turns out to be an Evil Paladin... I wouldn't care if he can use Carsomyr in the second game or not, he's coming with me for the full span of the game!!! I wanted to romance that smexy orc since I saw him come out ANYWAYS!!!

Crawley

There is a mod "NPC Kit Pack" that changes her into semi-Paladin:

TRUESWORD OF ARVOREEN: Arvoreen is the nearest thing to a halfling war god. He is a god of stern defense and aggressive watchfulness, who is always preparing for incursions into halfling lands and making ready to repulse hostile creatures at the first sign of trouble. Arvoreen is venerated primarily by halfling fighters.

Fighters that enter the church of Arvoreen, and prove themselves worthy, are raised to the rank of Truesword. Trueswords are the protectors and defenders of Halfling communities. They mount regular patrols, always investigating the slightest hint of a threat. Many Trueswords regularly adventure to gain magical weapons and defensive items of all kinds.

Trueswords of Arvoreen must be halflings of Lawful Good, Neutral Good, or Lawful Neutral alignment.

Advantages:
- Lay On Hands (heals 1 hit point per level) once per day
- Detect Evil (as the 1st-level priest spell) once per day
- From 3rd level can cast Strength (as the 2nd-level wizard spell) once per day
- From 5th level may Invoke Courage for 1 turn once per day per level
- From 7th level can cast Glyph of Warding (as the 3rd-level priest spell) once per day
- From 9th level can cast Strength of One (as the 3rd-level priest spell) once per day
- From 11th level can cast Haste (as the 3rd level wizard spell, but on themselves only) once per day
- From 14th level can cast Champion's Strength (as the 5th-level priest spell) once per day
Disadvantages:
- Can only place more than one proficiency point in short swords, short bows and slings

Kason

Xavioria said:

Back to the topic, I personally think that half human races should be able to be paladins because they ARE half humans. I understand that some human paladins are very traditional (not necessarily racist lmao) and wouldn't allow it, but I think other exceptions could be made. That, and the PC grew up as a human, so I think the PC should have a bit more leeway when considering classes (although not too much).

Totally this.
Lady Aribeth de Tylmarande from Neverwinter Nights was good example.

Washcloth_Repairman

To be fair, NWN uses 3rd Edition rules which lifted all race/class restrictions.