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Import NPCs' and PC's Stat increases made during BG1 into BG2

bikertiaxbikertiax Member Posts: 8
edited August 2012 in Archive (Feature Requests)
I have become aware that in BG1 there are various ways to permanently increase stats. I am also aware that Imoen starts BG2 as a Thief-Mage whose Int (17) is too low to deal with mage spells of the highest level. Therefore, I have a suggestion that will, I hope, be useful without unbalancing BG2: allow all permanent stat increases in BG to be carried over to BG2. This would, of course, only apply to NPCs appearing in BG2 and to the PC, but it is my hope that this might be acceptable for 2 reasons.

Firstly, it rewards players who have found and used stat increase methods in BG1, in the same way that completing many quests in BG1 rewards players with PCs of higher level.

Secondly, it allows Imoen greater strength as a wizard in act 1 of BG2 and allows her to continue to be of great use even in BG2's later stages, but only if players have decided in BG1 to increase her intelligence.
nptitim

Comments

  • JallaJakobJallaJakob Member Posts: 1
    Please!!!
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    While they might find a way to do this, the issue is that the game only imports your Charname: maybe they could embed who you used the stat tomes on in your character file or something?

    I intend to use Shadowkeeper or NI to edit these in when BG2:EE comes out, such as Edwin having 19 INT.
    [Deleted User]
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    edited March 2013
    bikertiax said:

    ...I am also aware that Imoen starts BG2 as a Thief-Mage whose Int (17) is too low to deal with mage spells of the highest level...

    ...Secondly, it allows Imoen greater strength as a wizard in act 1 of BG2 and allows her to continue to be of great use even in BG2's later stages, but only if players have decided in BG1 to increase her intelligence...

    The concept of limiting how high a spell level you can cast based on your INT was not implemented in BG1 or 2. The only impact INT has for mages/bards is determing your chance to successfully scribe scroll, and how many spells you can have in your spellbook at each spell level, which can be circumvented by drinking a potion of genius or mind focusing when you want to scribe a scroll.
    Post edited by TJ_Hooker on
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    edited March 2013
    You also have means of permanently raising Imoen's INT on ToB, either by...

    ...using the machine of Lum the Mad, or via a particular ioun stone that raises INT when equipped.


    In fact, BG2 Imoen is already a terribly effective character. From my experience, there's no trap or lock she can't avoid (and that's all you really need from a Thief, unless backstabbing or setting traps are absolutely essential to your strategies).

    As a spellcaster, she does great. I've had several games where she was the only Mage (the other arcane caster being my Bard who couldn't go over 6th level) and I didn't have a very hard time.

    With that said, it would be nice if there was a way of having more consistency between BG1 and BG2 based on how you played the first part. Knowing which character had increased stats could be one of them.
  • DarksheerDarksheer Member Posts: 84
    Instead of importing a character file for baldur's gate 2, why not make it so that after killing Sarevok in BG1 a save game is created which you can then load in BG2. This way everything could be imported.
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    edited April 2013
    Be careful what you wish for.

    Moving from BG to BG2, Jaheira gets three points of DEX. Edwin picks up a point of STR and WIS. Minsc gets a point each of STR DEX and CON. Viconia gets three points of WIS. If you really want consistent NPCs, you're not going to get these--there's no way to get BG Jaheira to 17 DEX, and you'd have to burn all three tomes of WIS on Viconia just to get her to where she'd be in BG2 anyway.

    A lot of these are suboptimal, sure--Edwin's STR and WIS bumps are worthless--but there's a fairly good case that the tomes are, in a fashion, already accounted for in BG2.

    edit: TJ_Hooker's correct, Minsc gets a DEX bump, not STR.
    Post edited by CamDawg on
    TJ_HookerErgIecerint
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    CamDawg said:

    Minsc gets a point each of STR and CON.

    I think Minsc gets +1 CON and DEX, not CON and STR.
    CamDawg
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    Whoops, yeah, it's DEX not STR.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Edwin's STR and WIS boosts aren't actually bad, one gives a bit of carry weight, and the others means he doesn't have a Lore penalty anymore.
    [Deleted User]
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    In BG, you have a tome for each stat, and two more tomes for WIS. That's a total of 8 ability points.

    The upgraded NPCs in BG2 get a total of 10 ability points between their stats. 4 go to WIS, and none go to INT or CHA.

    I imagine they didn't really take tomes into account. Instead they just revised the stats for the NPCs who were coming back.

    But of course, CamDawg's right in saying that to keep it really consistent, you'd have to give up the upgraded stats for returning NPCs.

    It's a matter of opinion, really. I wouldn't mind having the BG2 NPCs with their original lower stats if it meant greater customization on the bigger picture. I could have Imoen with 19 DEX from the get go, for example. Or Minsc with 19 STR!
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Kilivitz said:

    But of course, CamDawg's right in saying that to keep it really consistent, you'd have to give up the upgraded stats for returning NPCs.

    Why can't we get the upgraded stats into Bgee? and then get the tomes effects into BG2ee?

  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    I would love this feature, although it would make me really need to reconsider hogging all of the stat increases for ... Since I couldn't count on the NPC's surviving or showing up in 2, I have been very selfisssh, preciouss.
  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808

    Of course, for the redundancy-minded, we can just continue to import CHARNAME and double down on all tomes and get 25/25/25/25/25/25 stats. Is that cheddar or jack cheese? Omnomnom.
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459

    Why can't we get the upgraded stats into Bgee? and then get the tomes effects into BG2ee?

    That'd be a controversial solution to say the least. Some people saying it's great, some saying it's cheesy. I'm not sure which side I'd pick.
    TJ_Hooker
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Kilivitz said:

    Why can't we get the upgraded stats into Bgee? and then get the tomes effects into BG2ee?

    That'd be a controversial solution to say the least. Some people saying it's great, some saying it's cheesy. I'm not sure which side I'd pick.
    Somebody needs to make the hard decisions. They've "fixed" defensive spin, offensive spin, and bounty hunter traps being throwable. Time to fix NPC stats to be consistent across the EEs.
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    edited April 2013

    Somebody needs to make the hard decisions. They've "fixed" defensive spin, offensive spin, and bounty hunter traps being throwable. Time to fix NPC stats to be consistent across the EEs.

    Well, OK then. BG2EE NPCs will use their BG stats and no tomes will carry over.

    You're welcome.

    No, not at all serious
  • ICNICN Member Posts: 61

    Kilivitz said:

    Why can't we get the upgraded stats into Bgee? and then get the tomes effects into BG2ee?

    That'd be a controversial solution to say the least. Some people saying it's great, some saying it's cheesy. I'm not sure which side I'd pick.
    Somebody needs to make the hard decisions. They've "fixed" defensive spin, offensive spin, and bounty hunter traps being throwable. Time to fix NPC stats to be consistent across the EEs.
    Personally, I just figured that the upgrades came from a life of adventuring. Edwin? Carries stuff around more than he used to. +1 strength! Minsc? Battles didn't used to last this long. +1 Constitution! Of course, my knowledge of dnd is limited to BG mainly, so maybe the stats are supposed to be fixed in place for all of eternity.
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    edited April 2013
    ICN said:

    Of course, my knowledge of dnd is limited to BG mainly, so maybe the stats are supposed to be fixed in place for all of eternity.

    That depends. Up to 2nd edition AD&D (the rules used by the game), permanent stat changes only happened under extraordinary circumstances. Finding half a dozen tomes that increase stats like you do on BG's relatively short campaign is certainly the exception rather than the rule.

    However, starting with 3e, characters would get a +1 to a stat every four levels, and 4e took it up to eleven by adding an additional +1 to ALL stats every 10 levels or so.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Bhaaldog said:

    CamDawg said:

    Be careful what you wish for.

    Indeed. While stats could increase over time due to experience, there is also no reason they could not decrease over the time due to injury, disease, lack of use...
    That's not very optimistic. You mean your body doesn't grow stronger and stronger and stronger the longer you live?

    kamuizin
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    Damn true @smeagolheart, the status progression of the BG to BG2 NPCs just reflect an metabolic aspect real and to be expected. Tomes of "something", if we stop to think, aren't anything else than an book that give instruction on how to train.

    The BG/BG2 NPCs have all a specific set status points that they gain when the game pass from BG to BG2, that need just to be registered, and don't come to me saying that's lame to have both the bonus of transiction between BG/BG2 and a register of used tomes, cos no matter how better jaheira or viconia get if they have both bonus systems, they will not even be near the status of some another guy that join us in ToB... just to make a point.
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    I was under the impression that @smeagolheart was being sarcastic?

    Also, @kamuizin, the stat increase tomes aren't just self help books. They are magical.
    smeagolheart
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    TJ_Hooker said:

    I was under the impression that @smeagolheart was being sarcastic?

    Also, @kamuizin, the stat increase tomes aren't just self help books. They are magical.

    @TJ_Hooker @kamuizin apologies, I thought it was clear I was bemoaning the breakdown of the body in real life as we get older
    TJ_Hooker
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    edited April 2013
    Sarcasm or not, he made a point (even if not intended for). Body and mind can grows or shrink with the passing time and life experience. It's an statement i agree even if the own owner of the phrase don't.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    kamuizin said:

    Sarcasm or not, he made a point (even if not intended for). Body and mind can grows or shrink with the passing time and life experience. It's an statement i agree even if the own owner of the phrase don't.

    I agree with that. In context of the game, I could see it not necessarily shrinking or growing enough to change the stat point. The tomes are magical and I think they are supposed to perform great growth on an individual through magic.

    As others have mentioned, while the later editions (3e and above) embraced stats point additions at regular points, 2e seems to envision stats as much more static baring magical enhancement
    TJ_Hooker
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