Yes, the concept of Hexxat was poor from the start: a character suited only for a determinedly-Evil party and with limited (i.e. vanilla-Thief-only) skills even though the game would have benefitted far more from a character more versatile in both alignment and skills (such as a Neutral Fighter/Thief, for example),
The reason Hexxat is suited for an Evil party is because the Evil party needed a thief. Good/Neutral parties already had three NPCs to choose from, none of whom were particularly suited to the thematic design of Team Evil. And she's a vanilla thief because any other kit/multiclass would have reduced her skill points, which would gimp her thieving abilities, which would make her less ideal for the thief role the Evil party needs.
a "vampire" as a marketing gimmick because there was a contemporaneous fad for vampire movies except not actually much like a proper Forgotten Realms vampire,
Unless you're going to make the argument that the Valen mod, which has been around for over a decade now, was designed to serve the same contemporaneous fad, this is a fallacious argument. Vampires exist in BG2; therefore, it's at least as plausible that a vampire could become a party member as an avariel, a tiefling or a drow. The implementation of vampirism may leave something to be desired, but then, the most common complaint about Valen is that she's ridiculously overpowered and makes the game way too easy, so if it's a choice between one or the other...
a tokenist ethnicity trope bolted on as a feeble sop to liberal political correctness but then ignored until her epilogue, a tokenist sexual orientation trope bolted on as another feeble sop to liberal political correctness (although at least they made some effort with the romance option) ...
You. will. NOT. attribute criticisms of ethnic and sexual diversity to me. Those are your hang-ups. Hexxat has several major flaws as a character; the fact that she's black and the fact that she's a lesbian are not among those flaws.
However, when it came to Hexxat, I reckon there was a whole team of parallel writers who were handed a plot outline but then each worked in isolation on their own allocated section without seeing what the others were producing. That's a crap way of managing creative work, since it's bound to produce disjointed and jarring results which look very amateurish when strung together, but unfortunately it's a system which is likely to appeal to corporate execs who have no comprehension of creative processes or creative quality, but merely want very fast results.
Whatever the writing system, what shines through is that Hexxat was a rush job, stuffed full of internal inconsistencies and plot-holes, many of which could easily have been fixed (as you've illustrated, @shawne), because no-one took a careful overall look to edit her story into coherent shape. It's poor work and it shows, it really shows. She's by far the worst-written of any of the new characters.
Comparatively speaking, I won't contest that Hexxat is indeed the most problematic of the four main NPCs. However, the fact that I can illustrate, off the top of my head, the ease with which most of the major issues can be solved indicates that she's not irredeemable by a long shot. It wouldn't take very much work at all to get her where she needs to be to be considered as good as the others.
One of the odder(!) things about Hexxat, which you don't mention but which I'd offer as yet another instance of a writing error, is that to "convince her to stay in the party" is actually more difficult if you're in a romance with her than if you're not.
@Jalily confirmed this was a bug, not intentional behavior. Female characters in a romance with Hexxat are meant to have an easier time persuading her.
very interesting, kind of like Hexxat but maybe just because she is a killing machine. A party of Viconia, Edwin, Sarevok, Dorn, Hexxat and CHARNAME will destroy anything in it's path. With the right equipment you can often let the AI do the job.
I love that you say this, and then manage to misread pretty much every point I made and put words in my mouth to boot.
I wasn't intending to seem to be putting words in your mouth, but on review I wasn't clear enough. I was agreeing with (what seemed to me to be) your opinion that there that there are flaws in the concept, but then I listed my own reasons for holding that opinion, that wasn't meant to be a repetition of your reasons (which would surely have been pointless!)
The reason Hexxat is suited for an Evil party is because the Evil party needed a thief. Good/Neutral parties already had three NPCs to choose from, none of whom were particularly suited to the thematic design of Team Evil. And she's a vanilla thief because any other kit/multiclass would have reduced her skill points, which would gimp her thieving abilities, which would make her less ideal for the thief role the Evil party needs.
Well I don't agree, but we could be in danger of pointlessly re-hashing old arguments which were rehearsed at great length in this forum before BG2ee came out, so I recommend we don't bother.
I'll try to summarise for the benefit of new readers:-
The devs had promised only one new character for BG2ee, but there was general agreement that BG2 was rather short of choices for various roles but especially Thief roles, so there was much debate about which gap most urgently needed filling.
My view of the most urgent shortage was that the game had only one Thief (i.e. Jan) whose abilities could be developed, so I wanted another developable Thief who could work with everyone.
Your view of the most urgent shortage was that the game still had only four explicitly Evil characters (i.e. Korgan, Viconia, Edwin, and now Dorn) which still wasn't enough for Evil to field a full party in SoA, so you wanted another developable Thief who would be Evil.
As it turned out, the devs agreed with you and duly delivered an Evil Thief.
This time I obviously am explicitly putting words in your mouth, but I hope it's a tolerably-fair summary of the basic positions, and I hope we can leave it at that and agree to disagree rather than resurrecting a dead argument.
Unless you're going to make the argument that the Valen mod, which has been around for over a decade now, was designed to serve the same contemporaneous fad, this is a fallacious argument.
No, I'm not going to argue that about Valen. Valen was presumably a modder's personal choice to have a try at doing, not driven by a sales graph. However ...
Vampires exist in BG2; therefore, it's at least as plausible that a vampire could become a party member as an avariel, a tiefling or a drow.
Agreed. But there were lots of possible choices, and vampire is a particularly difficult one to implement in a plausible and playable way (as illustrated by the issues with Valen and Hexxat), yet nevertheless vampire was the particular one they chose. Obviously there was some sort of thinking behind the choice, and it seems to me a reasonable speculation that someone said "Vampires are cool this year, there might be some extra sales if we advertise a vampire, never mind that it'll be darn difficult to implement credibly!" If there wasn't some such pressure, then why didn't they implement something they could do better?
The implementation of vampirism may leave something to be desired, but then, the most common complaint about Valen is that she's ridiculously overpowered and makes the game way too easy, so if it's a choice between one or the other...
Or as I'd have preferred, choose to implement something else which isn't so difficult to do properly, not a vampire. But too late now.
You. will. NOT. attribute criticisms of ethnic and sexual diversity to me. Those are your hang-ups. Hexxat has several major flaws as a character; the fact that she's black and the fact that she's a lesbian are not among those flaws.
Sure, the criticism is mine, not yours, and it wasn't meant to look as if it was yours. However, I'm not criticising diversity, I'm criticising pandering and tokenism and stereotypical tropes ... and the trope part was explicitly one of your own criticisms as well.
Analysis frequently involves trying to work out how something might have come about. In the absence of definitive inside knowledge, that can always be described as "baseless speculation" when you want to be dismissive, but exactly the same process can also be called "building a hypothesis to fit the observed facts", which is the very foundation of the scientific method.
Comparatively speaking, I won't contest that Hexxat is indeed the most problematic of the four main NPCs. However, the fact that I can illustrate, off the top of my head, the ease with which most of the major issues can be solved indicates that she's not irredeemable by a long shot. It wouldn't take very much work at all to get her where she needs to be to be considered as good as the others.
I'm not entirely convinced, because I find her substantially less credible than the others, and it therefore seems to me that it'd need substantial work (starting with a re-think of how to implement a vampire, since it's too late to change her into anything else) to get her up to comparable standard.
Nevertheless, if it can indeed be done without an unfeasible amount of effort, then that's good news, and in that case I hope the devs are listening to you.
One of the odder(!) things about Hexxat, which you don't mention but which I'd offer as yet another instance of a writing error, is that to "convince her to stay in the party" is actually more difficult if you're in a romance with her than if you're not.
@Jalily confirmed this was a bug, not intentional behavior. Female characters in a romance with Hexxat are meant to have an easier time persuading her.
Aha! Thanks, @shawne, I didn't know that this is now an acknowledged bug, so that's a step forward. I hope it'll be fixed in due course.
Hmm, a pure thief is among the weakest classes, isn't it? Only thing they have is a couple of decent HLAs.
On its own, sure, but Hexxat has regeneration; immunity to Charm, Panic, Sleep, Level/Stat Drain, Poison, Hold and Disease; Domination and a CON-draining attack; and 20 STR/20 DEX. And on top of all that, she can't really die. It makes up for the inherent class disadvantage, IMO.
What, in your mind, would have made Hexxat a "legitimate" black character, as opposed to one designed to pander to those damned bleeding heart liberals?
Hmm, a pure thief is among the weakest classes, isn't it? Only thing they have is a couple of decent HLAs.
On its own, sure, but Hexxat has regeneration; immunity to Charm, Panic, Sleep, Level/Stat Drain, Poison, Hold and Disease; Domination and a CON-draining attack; and 20 STR/20 DEX. And on top of all that, she can't really die. It makes up for the inherent class disadvantage, IMO.
To a significant extent, yes. Even so, however, my experience using Hexxat has been that she's still mechanically weaker than any of the other new NPCs, by a wide margin. But as a Thief, I reckon that's as it should be; wholesale carnage is not what your Thief is there to do.
After getting about half-way through the game, Thieves can have good scores in every thief-skill and the first couple of HLAs, but after that their further development doesn't really add much value. This is why Thieves are generally better as half of a multi-class: you only need a half-Thief to do everything a Thief can ever do, so it's then more useful to have a half-something-else in the same character.
Hmm, a pure thief is among the weakest classes, isn't it? Only thing they have is a couple of decent HLAs.
On its own, sure, but Hexxat has regeneration; immunity to Charm, Panic, Sleep, Level/Stat Drain, Poison, Hold and Disease; Domination and a CON-draining attack; and 20 STR/20 DEX. And on top of all that, she can't really die. It makes up for the inherent class disadvantage, IMO.
If she'd been an Assassin with poisoned weapons and x7 backstab, or a Shadowdancer with all those HLAs, we'd be complaining that she was Over 9000. But I feel like we're sliding into a discussion of gameplay mechanics, and I'd really rather focus on story/characterization, at least for this thread.
First I want to say thank you shawne for your insight in these posts. I don't always agree, but I sincerely appreciate the thought and effort you've put into them, and I'm sure I'll refer to them in future as I move forward developing new game material.
Some general comments that may or may not be interesting or enlightening for those involved in these threads:
-Did Beamdog actually use Hexxat's vampirism for advertising purposes? That's not a rhetorical question--I honestly can't recall, but I *thought* that was held back along with Clara's true identity. Certain art assets emphasized a sinister aspect for the character, but I don't know that the company attempted to use vampires' appeal as a selling point for the character. I also don't know that that *didn't* happen--as I say, I honestly don't recall and I'm not at the office today to ask. I do know I was pleasantly surprised that as many details of the character weren't revealed prior to release, as from the time I arrived until shortly before shipping it was generally accepted that the secrets wouldn't and couldn't (and from a marketing standpoint, possibly even shouldn't) be kept.
-I don't know the exact details of the decision-making process that went into Hexxat's creation (most of it occurring before I joined the company), but I can say Hexxat's dialogue was not done by a writing team. Any faults anyone finds with it are pretty much entirely mine to own. To the best of my knowledge, Dave Gross and Philip Daigle outlined and designed the stories for all four of the (official) EE NPCs (Wilson's inclusion was all Phil, as far as I know). I wrote the bulk of the Rasaad, Dorn, and Hexxat dialogues, with Liam Esler contributing, especially in regards to the romances. I wrote an outline for the Black Pits 2; the dialogues for Neera and TBP2 were handled by writers at Ossian Studios, and as soon as this blazing migraine I've got going passes I'm going to feel tremendously guilty that I can't remember their names off the top of my head (I've got them written down at the office, but again, not at the office right now). All this material was overseen by Phil Daigle. I believe visual design for the EE NPCs was handled by Beamdog art director Nat Jones, though the Clara portait was by Madolin Bee. Apologies to anyone whose contributions I forgot to mention or simply didn't notice--it was a hectic time, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
-Anyone who's interested in my opinion of modern fictional vampires and associated tropes may want to take a look at my graphic novel DONE TO DEATH (if you can find a copy--it's out of print at the moment). Illustrated by SAGA co-creator Fiona Staples before she became SAGA CO-CREATOR FIONA STAPLES!, it was described as "A stake through the heart of the whole bloody genre." (The first issue used to be available online but I can't find a link to it at the moment, sorry.) Suffice it to say, I've no great love for the tragic romantic vampire.
-In spite of that, for a variety of reasons, Hexxat's story is the part of BG2EE I am personally most happy with. Prior to Adventure Y, she was my second favourite of the non-vanilla NPCs (Wilson edges her out, but in a lot of ways I don't think he "counts".) When Phil was giving the dev team specially-made Lego figures of the BG NPCs for Christmas, I got Hexxat; the figure has a place of pride in my living room display case.
And I think that's all I've got. Unless I think I've something of value to add in the way of background detail, this will probably be my last contribution to these threads, not because I'm not interested or don't find value in them--quite the contrary--but because I don't want to derail or distract from the conversation.
@AndrewFoley - wow! I didn't expect that the actual writers would really be here following the thread, and I apologise if you found any of my criticism rude. Thanks ever so much for giving us the inside story, that's fascinating. And that's also a fascinating hint about Adventure Y, by the way - you seem to be confirming that it definitely involves another new playable NPC, which (unless I've missed something) is hot news! (Come on you guys, we're all waiting with baited breath out here, we want to try it!)
@shawne and everyone - okay, now we know how it actually happened, so my speculations about how the writing process was conducted are redundant, and indeed turned out to be baseless (as hypotheses often do, once there's new evidence!), so I withdraw all those comments, and obviously I stand corrected by the guy who actually knows what happened.
@AndrewFoley: If there's something in my critique you'd like to toss on the table for further discussion, by all means do so - we're all ears, I'm sure.
@shawne , I'm really loving those posts . A shame that I have played very little with Dorn and Hexxat, however, I'm all willing to comment about Rasaad or Neera.
I really like what you are doing. Your arguments are eloquent, well-structured, consider the original game and the context in which all of these games are set, and take no prisoners.
This has been a particularly intriguing read. Although it isn't your argument, and I shall not attempt to put the words into your mouth, you have explained very effectively here why Hexxat is the greatest joinable NPC catastrophe since Aerie, in my opinion.
The 'we don't know' conundrum and her character inconsistencies really don't satisfy me as the player, and I strongly agree that the consistent portrayal of Hexxat as an apologising innocent does make many of the good-aligned characters look horrifically bigoted and intolerant. In SoA, her blind acceptance of L's missions without offering explanation or an immediate resolution (we only get these things in ToB) paints her out to be Lawful Evil, as she is working obediently to a contract for her survival, not for a self-serving mission, and a lack of explanations leaves you staring at her alignment on the character record sheet with an imagined '?' hanging off the end of it.
As with Dorn, and Rasaad, this has been a great read. I'm very glad to be an audience member for your critiques.
Talking about Hexxat there are only 2 things that bother me a lot (major things). 1. She's overpowered as hell for a BG NPC. 2. And the most sad thing is: when I first was playing BGEE2 with Hexxat, Minsc was in my party. And you know, Minsc has the racial enemy - VAMPIRES. I was confused, Minsc didn't attack her as he should do, he even had nothing to say in the joining dialogue. I'm not 100% sure about this, it was the only time I was playing with Minsc and Hexxat in my party, perhaps it'll be fixed in the future or was already fixed. But it really makes no sense. Storywise Minsc should kill her at first sight (no matter what) or his racial enemy ability is a joke. Just an example. Besides, her NPC banters especially with evil NPCs are very poor or childish, IMO. I know the devs did this simple because to avoid any serious conflicts in a evil group, but still... Having a vampire in your group is not equal having just an evil living humanbeeing NPC in the group. I understand, that some Twilight fans would disagree, but it's just my opinion.
One more thing. I'm pretty sure the devs were inspired by the Valen mod while making Hexxy
Still very good job @shawne. I'm curious to read about Neera.
Talking about Hexxat there are only 2 things that bother me a lot (major things). 1. She's overpowered as hell for a BG NPC.
Depends who you're using as the baseline for that comparison, I think - she has extremely high STR and DEX, but only if she isn't wearing the Cloak (otherwise, she's only one point higher than Dorn); she has low CON/HP; of her three innate abilities, one (Children of the Night) is effectively useless; her undead immunities come with the drawback of undead vulnerabilities, meaning enemy clerics can control her or knock her across the room.
2. And the most sad thing is: when I first was playing BGEE2 with Hexxat, Minsc was in my party. And you know, Minsc has the racial enemy - VAMPIRES. I was confused, Minsc didn't attack her as he should do, he even had nothing to say in the joining dialogue. I'm not 100% sure about this, it was the only time I was playing with Minsc and Hexxat in my party, perhaps it'll be fixed in the future or was already fixed. But it really makes no sense. Storywise Minsc should kill her at first sight (no matter what) or his racial enemy ability is a joke. Just an example.
Minsc is definitely an anomaly. If I recall correctly, there is an exchange in CHARNAME basically helps Hexxat fool Minsc into believing that she isn't a vampire (which is a tactic that would really only work with Minsc), but... I don't know if that's a satisfactory answer.
Besides, her NPC banters especially with evil NPCs are very poor or childish, IMO. I know the devs did this simple because to avoid any serious conflicts in a evil group, but still... Having a vampire in your group is not equal having just an evil living humanbeeing NPC in the group. I understand, that some Twilight fans would disagree, but it's just my opinion.
I disagree - if anything, the reverse seems true. Her exchanges with Good characters tend to come off as simplistic because they're going all-out and she's just repeatedly apologizing and doing the whole "Who, me?" bit. With the other members of Team Evil, she gets to be a bit more playful, mocking Dorn and Edwin, frustrating Korgan. I'd go so far as to say that her interactions with Viconia are probably the best part of her storyline overall.
One more thing. I'm pretty sure the devs were inspired by the Valen mod while making Hexxy
I wouldn't be surprised, given the similarities. The sad thing is, as they currently stand, a straightforward story/gameplay comparison between the two would lead me to see Valen as the more believable, more understandable character. Inspiration is all well and good, but for professional content - priced professional content at that - the bar needs to be a bit higher.
“We don’t know.” Except that we could have known, very easily. If I recall my D&D lore correctly, vampires go to the Abyss when they die. Hexxat’s mother was an Ubtoan cleric, her aunts were presumably also women of faith: the only way Hexxat could reunite with them would be if she died a human death. It’s a relatable, understandable, sympathetic wish: she did all this to see her family again. Instead, all she says is that she can’t endure the life of a vampire… but if that’s all she wants, she could have killed herself at any time. But dying as a human, for a real reason: that’s something only L could do for her.
Just adding these details to her storyline would close a lot of the holes. There is a scene in the Tomb of the Unproved (I think) when Hexxat gazes at a tapestry and begins a discussion with the protagonist about her mother. In those brief moments, hearing Hexxat speak of her mother, I sensed a sadness in her voice, and got to feel a softer side of her that we hardly ever see (due in no small part to her wonderful voice-acting).
I always wanted to know a little more about Hexxat's family after she mentioned them in the tomb... I was under the impression that I would learn more as the quest went on. And yet, it never gets brought up again? That was a little disappointing. Other than giving her a little bit of background (not enough to be satisfying), the scene served little purpose. But, if the above scenario were to be added to her story, it would make a perfect bit of foreshadowing.
Admittedly, there's still other issues with the character, but this would at least close one of the biggest ones--her inconsistent motivation and lack of background.
OP: "Hexxat’s interactions with other party members similarly falls into a strange middle ground. Naturally, her presence is anathema to Good characters, and nearly half the Good NPCs will openly rebel: Keldorn and Anomen are the obvious choices, Mazzy and Aerie less so. (Minsc doesn’t seem to have a problem with her, despite the fact that his racial enemy is vampire.)"
OP: "Hexxat’s interactions with other party members similarly falls into a strange middle ground. Naturally, her presence is anathema to Good characters, and nearly half the Good NPCs will openly rebel: Keldorn and Anomen are the obvious choices, Mazzy and Aerie less so. (Minsc doesn’t seem to have a problem with her, despite the fact that his racial enemy is vampire.)"
WOW really? this needs fixing asap
Did some checking, and it turns out there actually is an exchange that deals with this:
Minsc: Are you sure...? She's...well, you know. She SEEMS nice, yes, but still...vampire. Hexxat: My ears are burning. Minsc: No, they aren't. Hexxat: You mentioned a vampire. Minsc: I was talking to Boo. Hexxat: Ah. I see. And what did Boo say? Minsc: Boo says you aren't what you seem. Hexxat: Few people are. Your miniaturized giant space hamster is wise. Minsc: You... RECOGNIZE giant space hamsters? Hexxat: Of course. Minsc: Boo is right. You aren't a normal vampire. Hexxat: I try not to be. They're rather unpleasant creatures, as a rule. Minsc: Maybe it's all right that you're with us after all. Hexxat: You thought otherwise? Minsc: Well. You're a vampire. Hexxat: I understand. And what does Boo think? Minsc: Boo thinks... you're all right. Hexxat: Has Boo steered you wrong yet? Minsc: No! Never! Hexxat: Perhaps you should listen to him now, then. Minsc: Yes. I'll do that. Hexxat: Thank you for telling me about the madman's hamster, . PC: I didn't realize you'd use the information to take advantage of him. Hexxat: Take advantage of him? Not at all. I merely seek to ensure relations between me and your friends don't turn sour. Some have... issues with my nature. I'd rather Minsc not be one of them. PC: Just make sure he doesn't find out you can't tell a giant space hamster from a dormouse. Hexxat: But I can. PC: You can? Hexxat: A dormouse can't speak.
It works well enough, I suppose - certainly something that would only work with Minsc, anyway.
Just adding these details to her storyline would close a lot of the holes. There is a scene in the Tomb of the Unproved (I think) when Hexxat gazes at a tapestry and begins a discussion with the protagonist about her mother. In those brief moments, hearing Hexxat speak of her mother, I sensed a sadness in her voice, and got to feel a softer side of her that we hardly ever see (due in no small part to her wonderful voice-acting).
I always wanted to know a little more about Hexxat's family after she mentioned them in the tomb... I was under the impression that I would learn more as the quest went on. And yet, it never gets brought up again? That was a little disappointing. Other than giving her a little bit of background (not enough to be satisfying), the scene served little purpose. But, if the above scenario were to be added to her story, it would make a perfect bit of foreshadowing.
Admittedly, there's still other issues with the character, but this would at least close one of the biggest ones--her inconsistent motivation and lack of background.
Comments
I'll try to summarise for the benefit of new readers:-
The devs had promised only one new character for BG2ee, but there was general agreement that BG2 was rather short of choices for various roles but especially Thief roles, so there was much debate about which gap most urgently needed filling.
My view of the most urgent shortage was that the game had only one Thief (i.e. Jan) whose abilities could be developed, so I wanted another developable Thief who could work with everyone.
Your view of the most urgent shortage was that the game still had only four explicitly Evil characters (i.e. Korgan, Viconia, Edwin, and now Dorn) which still wasn't enough for Evil to field a full party in SoA, so you wanted another developable Thief who would be Evil.
As it turned out, the devs agreed with you and duly delivered an Evil Thief.
This time I obviously am explicitly putting words in your mouth, but I hope it's a tolerably-fair summary of the basic positions, and I hope we can leave it at that and agree to disagree rather than resurrecting a dead argument. No, I'm not going to argue that about Valen. Valen was presumably a modder's personal choice to have a try at doing, not driven by a sales graph. However ... Agreed. But there were lots of possible choices, and vampire is a particularly difficult one to implement in a plausible and playable way (as illustrated by the issues with Valen and Hexxat), yet nevertheless vampire was the particular one they chose. Obviously there was some sort of thinking behind the choice, and it seems to me a reasonable speculation that someone said "Vampires are cool this year, there might be some extra sales if we advertise a vampire, never mind that it'll be darn difficult to implement credibly!" If there wasn't some such pressure, then why didn't they implement something they could do better? Or as I'd have preferred, choose to implement something else which isn't so difficult to do properly, not a vampire. But too late now. Sure, the criticism is mine, not yours, and it wasn't meant to look as if it was yours. However, I'm not criticising diversity, I'm criticising pandering and tokenism and stereotypical tropes ... and the trope part was explicitly one of your own criticisms as well. Analysis frequently involves trying to work out how something might have come about. In the absence of definitive inside knowledge, that can always be described as "baseless speculation" when you want to be dismissive, but exactly the same process can also be called "building a hypothesis to fit the observed facts", which is the very foundation of the scientific method. I'm not entirely convinced, because I find her substantially less credible than the others, and it therefore seems to me that it'd need substantial work (starting with a re-think of how to implement a vampire, since it's too late to change her into anything else) to get her up to comparable standard.
Nevertheless, if it can indeed be done without an unfeasible amount of effort, then that's good news, and in that case I hope the devs are listening to you. Aha! Thanks, @shawne, I didn't know that this is now an acknowledged bug, so that's a step forward. I hope it'll be fixed in due course.
After getting about half-way through the game, Thieves can have good scores in every thief-skill and the first couple of HLAs, but after that their further development doesn't really add much value. This is why Thieves are generally better as half of a multi-class: you only need a half-Thief to do everything a Thief can ever do, so it's then more useful to have a half-something-else in the same character.
Some general comments that may or may not be interesting or enlightening for those involved in these threads:
-Did Beamdog actually use Hexxat's vampirism for advertising purposes? That's not a rhetorical question--I honestly can't recall, but I *thought* that was held back along with Clara's true identity. Certain art assets emphasized a sinister aspect for the character, but I don't know that the company attempted to use vampires' appeal as a selling point for the character. I also don't know that that *didn't* happen--as I say, I honestly don't recall and I'm not at the office today to ask. I do know I was pleasantly surprised that as many details of the character weren't revealed prior to release, as from the time I arrived until shortly before shipping it was generally accepted that the secrets wouldn't and couldn't (and from a marketing standpoint, possibly even shouldn't) be kept.
-I don't know the exact details of the decision-making process that went into Hexxat's creation (most of it occurring before I joined the company), but I can say Hexxat's dialogue was not done by a writing team. Any faults anyone finds with it are pretty much entirely mine to own. To the best of my knowledge, Dave Gross and Philip Daigle outlined and designed the stories for all four of the (official) EE NPCs (Wilson's inclusion was all Phil, as far as I know). I wrote the bulk of the Rasaad, Dorn, and Hexxat dialogues, with Liam Esler contributing, especially in regards to the romances. I wrote an outline for the Black Pits 2; the dialogues for Neera and TBP2 were handled by writers at Ossian Studios, and as soon as this blazing migraine I've got going passes I'm going to feel tremendously guilty that I can't remember their names off the top of my head (I've got them written down at the office, but again, not at the office right now). All this material was overseen by Phil Daigle. I believe visual design for the EE NPCs was handled by Beamdog art director Nat Jones, though the Clara portait was by Madolin Bee. Apologies to anyone whose contributions I forgot to mention or simply didn't notice--it was a hectic time, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
-Anyone who's interested in my opinion of modern fictional vampires and associated tropes may want to take a look at my graphic novel DONE TO DEATH (if you can find a copy--it's out of print at the moment). Illustrated by SAGA co-creator Fiona Staples before she became SAGA CO-CREATOR FIONA STAPLES!, it was described as "A stake through the heart of the whole bloody genre." (The first issue used to be available online but I can't find a link to it at the moment, sorry.) Suffice it to say, I've no great love for the tragic romantic vampire.
-In spite of that, for a variety of reasons, Hexxat's story is the part of BG2EE I am personally most happy with. Prior to Adventure Y, she was my second favourite of the non-vanilla NPCs (Wilson edges her out, but in a lot of ways I don't think he "counts".) When Phil was giving the dev team specially-made Lego figures of the BG NPCs for Christmas, I got Hexxat; the figure has a place of pride in my living room display case.
And I think that's all I've got. Unless I think I've something of value to add in the way of background detail, this will probably be my last contribution to these threads, not because I'm not interested or don't find value in them--quite the contrary--but because I don't want to derail or distract from the conversation.
@shawne and everyone - okay, now we know how it actually happened, so my speculations about how the writing process was conducted are redundant, and indeed turned out to be baseless (as hypotheses often do, once there's new evidence!), so I withdraw all those comments, and obviously I stand corrected by the guy who actually knows what happened.
But thats fine.... until my boss finds out
@AndrewFoley ordering DONE TO DEATH when I get the chance. Fiona Staples rocks (and you are cool too
This has been a particularly intriguing read. Although it isn't your argument, and I shall not attempt to put the words into your mouth, you have explained very effectively here why Hexxat is the greatest joinable NPC catastrophe since Aerie, in my opinion.
The 'we don't know' conundrum and her character inconsistencies really don't satisfy me as the player, and I strongly agree that the consistent portrayal of Hexxat as an apologising innocent does make many of the good-aligned characters look horrifically bigoted and intolerant. In SoA, her blind acceptance of L's missions without offering explanation or an immediate resolution (we only get these things in ToB) paints her out to be Lawful Evil, as she is working obediently to a contract for her survival, not for a self-serving mission, and a lack of explanations leaves you staring at her alignment on the character record sheet with an imagined '?' hanging off the end of it.
As with Dorn, and Rasaad, this has been a great read. I'm very glad to be an audience member for your critiques.
Talking about Hexxat there are only 2 things that bother me a lot (major things).
1. She's overpowered as hell for a BG NPC.
2. And the most sad thing is: when I first was playing BGEE2 with Hexxat, Minsc was in my party. And you know, Minsc has the racial enemy - VAMPIRES. I was confused, Minsc didn't attack her as he should do, he even had nothing to say in the joining dialogue. I'm not 100% sure about this, it was the only time I was playing with Minsc and Hexxat in my party, perhaps it'll be fixed in the future or was already fixed. But it really makes no sense. Storywise Minsc should kill her at first sight (no matter what) or his racial enemy ability is a joke. Just an example.
Besides, her NPC banters especially with evil NPCs are very poor or childish, IMO. I know the devs did this simple because to avoid any serious conflicts in a evil group, but still... Having a vampire in your group is not equal having just an evil living humanbeeing NPC in the group. I understand, that some Twilight fans would disagree, but it's just my opinion.
One more thing. I'm pretty sure the devs were inspired by the Valen mod while making Hexxy
Still very good job @shawne. I'm curious to read about Neera.
I always wanted to know a little more about Hexxat's family after she mentioned them in the tomb... I was under the impression that I would learn more as the quest went on. And yet, it never gets brought up again? That was a little disappointing. Other than giving her a little bit of background (not enough to be satisfying), the scene served little purpose. But, if the above scenario were to be added to her story, it would make a perfect bit of foreshadowing.
Admittedly, there's still other issues with the character, but this would at least close one of the biggest ones--her inconsistent motivation and lack of background.
WOW really? this needs fixing asap
Minsc: Are you sure...? She's...well, you know. She SEEMS nice, yes, but still...vampire.
Hexxat: My ears are burning.
Minsc: No, they aren't.
Hexxat: You mentioned a vampire.
Minsc: I was talking to Boo.
Hexxat: Ah. I see. And what did Boo say?
Minsc: Boo says you aren't what you seem.
Hexxat: Few people are. Your miniaturized giant space hamster is wise.
Minsc: You... RECOGNIZE giant space hamsters?
Hexxat: Of course.
Minsc: Boo is right. You aren't a normal vampire.
Hexxat: I try not to be. They're rather unpleasant creatures, as a rule.
Minsc: Maybe it's all right that you're with us after all.
Hexxat: You thought otherwise?
Minsc: Well. You're a vampire.
Hexxat: I understand. And what does Boo think?
Minsc: Boo thinks... you're all right.
Hexxat: Has Boo steered you wrong yet?
Minsc: No! Never!
Hexxat: Perhaps you should listen to him now, then.
Minsc: Yes. I'll do that.
Hexxat: Thank you for telling me about the madman's hamster, .
PC: I didn't realize you'd use the information to take advantage of him.
Hexxat: Take advantage of him? Not at all. I merely seek to ensure relations between me and your friends don't turn sour. Some have... issues with my nature. I'd rather Minsc not be one of them.
PC: Just make sure he doesn't find out you can't tell a giant space hamster from a dormouse.
Hexxat: But I can.
PC: You can?
Hexxat: A dormouse can't speak.
It works well enough, I suppose - certainly something that would only work with Minsc, anyway.