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Runehammer +5 - why isn't it a "speed weapon"?

It has a speed factor of 0.

I only mention this because when I asked (many, many moons ago) why Kundane added an extra attack, I was told it was because of its speed factorof 0.

thanks!

Comments

  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    Yup, there's no relation between speed factor and APR. Also, there's plenty of other weapons with 0 speed factor out there that don't grant extra APR.
    jackjack
  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 894

    That is incorrect. The description of kundane explicitly states it adds one extra attack. This effect is what is referred to as a speed weapon. Speed factor is quite useless.

    Thank you. I could have sworn that extra attack was unwritten.
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    Klorox said:

    That is incorrect. The description of kundane explicitly states it adds one extra attack. This effect is what is referred to as a speed weapon. Speed factor is quite useless.

    Thank you. I could have sworn that extra attack was unwritten.
    I'm pretty sure that was actually the case in vanilla BG2. The description was updated for EE.
    elminsterjackjackCrevsDaak
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    Iirc, arent speed weapons in 2nd ed supposed to have a speed factor of 0 as an aspect of the enchantment?

    Note: warhammers are supposed to be a pretty fast weapon, vs the slower heavier mace, which has many similarities in reality. 2d4 hammers though should probably nab a speed factor penalty, but thats opinion.

    Also note: Weapons are supposed to get a bonus to speed factor based on its enchantment level, ie a Longsword +3 should be 3 steps faster.
  • ryuken87ryuken87 Member Posts: 563
    I think the original description of Kundane didn't mention its extra attack but did mention "no speed factor" which confused me as well at the time. While ago though, might be misremembering.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    @TJ_Hooker‌, @ryuken87‌ - that's right, in original BG2 Kundane's description didn't mention the extra attack, and I'm pretty sure that I saw it explicitly documented somewhere (original manuals, maybe?) that a speed factor of 0 automatically meant an extra attack (even though that wasn't true in general, and only actually applied in the case of Kundane, not for other speed-0 weapons).

    It would be rather useful if there were some blunt weapon in the game which was a speed weapon, although to be of much use it should be something we can find in SoA, not the Runehammer which we only get half-way through ToB. It probably ought to be one of the hammers (as @DreadKhan explains above), if such a thing were to be introduced. At the moment, Ashideena +2 and Borok's Fist +2 are completely identical hammers, even though they have different names and descriptions ... perhaps one of them could be changed into a speed weapon? Should I make a Feature Request?
  • MetallomanMetalloman Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,975
    It always bugged me a little to see two weapons obtainable in the same game having the same icon, features and description.
    It has little sense to me: could it be that Borok's Fist was meant to be another kind of weapon but Black Isle had not the time to implement it completely and then copy/pasted Ashideena features? I would be curious to know something about this...
    jackjackSCARY_WIZARDCrevsDaak
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    I had an early barbarian playthrough in which I DWed those hammers. Speed would have been nice.

    Looked cool though!
  • Night_WatchNight_Watch Member Posts: 514

    It always bugged me a little to see two weapons obtainable in the same game having the same icon, features and description.
    It has little sense to me: could it be that Borok's Fist was meant to be another kind of weapon but Black Isle had not the time to implement it completely and then copy/pasted Ashideena features? I would be curious to know something about this...

    I was so excited when I saw Ashideena in BG2. Then I got sad when it was spelled Borok's Fist =(
    MetallomanjackjackSCARY_WIZARDCrevsDaak
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356

    I was so excited when I saw Ashideena in BG2. Then I got sad when it was spelled Borok's Fist =(

    You can get Ashideena in BG2 as well as Borok's Fist. (Ashideena can be found during the Unseeing Eye quest.)
    SCARY_WIZARD
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited September 2014

    @TJ_Hooker‌, @ryuken87‌ - that's right, in original BG2 Kundane's description didn't mention the extra attack, and I'm pretty sure that I saw it explicitly documented somewhere (original manuals, maybe?) that a speed factor of 0 automatically meant an extra attack (even though that wasn't true in general, and only actually applied in the case of Kundane, not for other speed-0 weapons).

    From the original BG1 manual (pg 75) and BG2 manual (page 39)

    "In Baldur’s Gate, to allow for the real-time based combat and movement, each character and monster is on an independent personal initiative round, which is six seconds long. Within the personal initiative round, all of the rules of the AD&D game are used, including speed factors for weapons and casting time for spells. For higher level characters who can attack more than once per round with a given weapon, the speed factor of the weapon determines when exactly in the six second round the attacks will occur. Speed Factors are numbers between 1 and 10 (indicating 1/10 of a round and 10/10ths of a round respectively for a character that can attack once per round with a weapon)."

    Definitely wasn't in the manuals if you saw it.
    jackjackSCARY_WIZARDCrevsDaak
  • MetallomanMetalloman Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,975
    edited September 2014

    I was so excited when I saw Ashideena in BG2. Then I got sad when it was spelled Borok's Fist =(

    You can get Ashideena in BG2 as well as Borok's Fist. (Ashideena can be found during the Unseeing Eye quest.)
    Yes, but in BGII you have more chances to find Borok's Fist (Adventurer Mart in Waukeen Promenade, IIRC) before you can find Ashideena (can't remember where it is in BGII) so, being most probably BF the first hammer one can find, I understand @Night_Watch‌ completely: it happened to me too, I liked that weapon a lot in BG.
    *scrolls Adventurer's Mart selection*
    *sees Ashideena icon*
    *hovers cursor*
    - Oh! Another unique hammer! It's not expensive, I think I'll buy it!
    *looks at the description*
    *Shocked*
    *buys it anyway*

    jackjackSCARY_WIZARDCrevsDaakNight_Watch
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    elminster said:

    [Quoting the original manual] "... Speed Factors are numbers between 1 and 10 ..."

    So maybe it was somewhere else I saw it, but I'm still pretty sure that I saw it documented somewhere. But note that this manual extract says "between 1 and 10", thus excluding the possibility of speed factor 0. Possibly that's why some addendum or other explanation subsequently (and misleadingly) clarified that speed factor 0 means an extra attack.
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