Adding new areas to Infinity games has always been a bit of a modding pain because worldmap changes are among the more awkward (so much so that even official Infinity developers avoided it... as I recall, IWD's Trials of the Luremaster wasn't accessible through the worldmap, just through a "Talk to me and I'll take you to the expansion area!" dialogue) but it is by no means impossible or a problem which requires additional tools to solve.
I agree that used to be a serious problem but SConrad created a couple of decent macros that add areas and the associated code gubbins quite successfully (I used them in 'Fishing For Trouble' for BG2). I've since used the same code in an unfinished BG1 mod, so it works with both of these varieties of the IE. The only downside of them is that the area transition times were never fully sorted - I recall someone did fix the problem but not who it was.
Possible creation of a toolset for the Enhanced Infinity engine ?
Toolset for the Enhanced Infinity Engine Mapping BAMing
@TrentOster : "DLTCEP is better than the original tools Bioware" But some of us dreamed of a new Map Editor (tired of tandem IETME / DLTCEP ^^) ! And for my part an update of BamWorkShop or a new BAM Editor ... Could you do something about it ? -TY .
P.S. : Of course these new/update/tools should be : -inter & -retro-compatible with BG.EE/BG Vanilla : )
DLTCEP is better than the original tools Bioware used to make the game. I've observed both in use and DLTCEP is much less painful than the original tools. There was a reason Bioware later founded a tools group.
Also, dltcep is open source. You can join in its development with ideas or code. JC dropped an idea to our support board, and the idea was realized in a week (well, probably he had to repeat it a few times). Here is the dltcep request thread: http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=11868
If you have a tile library, you can also use dltcep as a "tileset builder". That's how doors are made, actually.
May be in the time allowed (*), Except make new tools, You could have the courtesy to answer to these requests, with sharing a few stuffs : Models and/or Tools ? Otherwise, please give some answers : even if only negatively or to say if requests are in study/progress ...
Again,
"-Any chance to have some news of this requests ?
"A) Could you please, share, those old originals tools ? : "
Dragonlance TC Editor Pro Unofficial game file editor/checker/browser for IE (Infinity Engine) games. Official game file editor for GemRB
Current version: V7.4e
Changes:
V7.4e - fixed registering of AUX map changes when they first go into override - language setting in WEIDU options (affects resource location too) - removed buggy directory changing introduced in 7.4b - fixed .gam editor to still start in the last savegame dir (you need to turn off 'always start in default folder')
V7.4d - added composite dialog viewing mode (loads referenced dialogs into the treeview) - fixed tileset saving broken in v7.4b
V7.4c - check tags in tlk editor now works - overlapping ambient check - colliding region/doorname check - fixed trigger searching in dialogs - configurable area editor window size
V7.4b - more checking/searching abilities for various filetypes - file picker now starts in the same directory you left it previously (no more resetting to the override) -
V7.4a - can automatically correct some item corruptions caused by WeiDU. - more updated fields from BGEE public information - improved 2da/effect checking abilities
V7.4 - updated/clarified several unknown fields based on BGEE developer information
People have previously said that having access to the source code makes the process of enhancing the game whole lot easier. If that is the case why do they use tools that were available to use without having SC access? Are there different tools used to modify the game code rather than just content tools?
What about at least offering an official game editor? Players have been using Shadowkeeper for the last decade plus. Why not at least make something like that?
If it is to be truly useful to modders, i.e., combines the functionality of all the various fan-developed editors used by the modding community, might as well call it a toolset, though.
This would certainly be a fitting giveback to the modding community for all its devotion and hard work lo these many years. I don't mean for this to sound entitled, lol. But I think most fans would agree that it would be a wonderful and well deserved gesture.
But we already have a fantastic toolset. It's called DLTCEP. Why would we want something else? DLTCEP is brilliant, it does everything needed and more to make mods
DLTCEP is better than the original tools Bioware used to make the game. I've observed both in use and DLTCEP is much less painful than the original tools. There was a reason Bioware later founded a tools group.
@Kaeloree - DLTCEP doesn't do everything unfortunately. In particular, I'd like to see more batch conversion options (hence we need to lean on BAM Workshop and other tools). But it does *almost* everything .
I'm normally not keen on purchasing DLC, but if this was offered up as a later purchase I would absolutely lunge at the opportunity. As a long-time Baldur's Gate fan (since 2002) and a modder/server admin in NWN's heyday I would kill for the opportunity to mod the Infinity Engine. It was, and still is, my favorite series of games, and the only thing it was ever missing was a good modding tool.
If the powers that be up in Beamdog hear our pleas and come out with such a tool, I can honestly say that my life will be complete.
I am against DLC to a degree (as most times it comes off as a moneygrab from the developer) I suspect the greatest block to this will be a legality/licensing one. As to whether I'd pay for any, it would depend greatly on quality and QC process. So often today you buy a DLC pack, even when its only a few dollars, and it amounts to a new weapon and skins and a crappy mini-expansion thats not worth the time to play through. Then when you look at value (time spent playing through 1 time in main game vs. time spent playing through DLC you REALLY get ripped off) Many DLCs are tweaks and edits and represent a fraction of the time that went into the original product but often times cost disproportionately more particularly when you look at a game has 1/2 dozen or more DLCs and THEN a year or so after the game was released they release a "new" GOTY or "Director's Edition" or some such nonsense. Then there are the DLCs or mods that are not even worth the playthrough or straight out break things... I'm all for rewarding hard work, but too often DLCs are seen as and used for, by the developer/producer, as a new revenue stream to "recoup" costs and bolster the bottom line.
But doesn't it depend on what Beamdog does in overhauling the Infinity engine? I'm reading the Beamdog dev interviews about what a Herculean labor it has been to clean up the code. Won't it all be much easier to work with when they're done? Trent Oster has basically said his goal is to perfect this game (engine).
The biggest misconception that people seem to have here is that what Beamdog/Overhaul is doing is more akin to a thorough spit/polish & detailing of the game engine and not a true overhaul... Here, let me put it in another way... Say you have a '78 Trans Am, still structurally sound and beautiful lines. With a bit of love it'll be a barnstormer again and show the "kids" what real craftsmanship can make possible. But you don't have any of the tools/parts available. So instead of doing a full frame-off restoration (overhaul: lighten and re-engineer the frame, steering geometry, suspension, brakes...) you do an extreme job of cleaning the interior, replacing the carpeting and leather seat covers, washing/buffing/waxing the paint&glass till it shines like a diamond... By the time you are done you have a car that is near as beautiful as when it was showroom new, some things work a little better than new, but at its bones its still just a stoplight ripper that can't take a corner without making you crap yourself... The IE is a strong platform and Bioware/BlackIsle Studios made some of the best games ever on it, but its still an old beast. I have no doubt that Overhaul Games is doing alot of hard work streamlining the code and simply making it work efficiently on todays OS environments. There are plenty of old games I love to play that I have to maintain an old Win'98 box just for ease of use. Some things don't play nice with the latest OS
@Lemernis I don't know how much more official DLTCEP could be when Trent says they use it for development
Some people already work on making Shadowkeeper BGEE compatible. But even without that, it will be relatively easy to use it for some basic editing.
But, you must make up your mind: 1. you want a minimal editor that barely scratches the surface 2. you want a toolset that is capable of editing all the files.
I'm positive that DLTCEP with WeiDU (they are integrated into a single tool), is capable of doing everything a modder or a developer needs. And NI is also modified to stay compatible.
@Miloch 90% may be a bit overestimation, but dialog/script stuff doesn't need dltcep, takes up the majority of the new content, and that is entirely done by weidu. Most of the patches are submitted as a weidu script too.
About the only thing I'd like to see is a decent BAM editor. Both BamWorkshop and BamWorkshop 2 were 'almost there' but both have huge bugs in them that require the use of the 'other' bam editor to get round. The only other tools I use for modding are DLTCEP, NI, ConTEXT and Weidu. Oh - and a good healthy dose of Photoshop CS3. In that list PS and DLTCEP are running equal first - one is not much use without the other.
@Yovaneth - Erephine reversed at least some of the bugs in BAM Workshop... remind me to dig it up on SHS since I don't think it ever got posted publicly, and it should. Not that great at doing batch stuff either though, which is why I did BAM Batcher and I also use Sam.'s PS GUI for mass-converting sounds and such.
@Yovaneth - I don't know... I didn't think the BAM Workshop source code was out there though. I think she just reverse-engineered the executable the same way she did for ToB, so that would be more like machine or assembly language as I would understand it anyway.
I could add some pixel editor into DLTCEP, but that's why we have PS (or at least ms paint). What i really see missing from dltcep (because i still couldn't figure it out) is the .plt converter. But the engine is happy with bam's for paperdoll, so this isn't really pressing.
@Avenger_teambg - graphic editors aren't a problem (I prefer Paint Shop, but Photoshop is good and even Gimp is free). It's more a problem in BAM assembly/disassembly/reassembly, particularly en masse. You need to do a lot of tertiary steps with that in the current toolsets.
I really like the idea of a map editor that non-programmers can understand. I have several ideas for mods that I really want to create and I've created literally dozens of levels in other games that have map editors I can understand. For me, creating new levels and characters that I could then play might be more fun than the rest of the game itself. Unfortunately, as a full-time graduate student I don't really have time to learn programming, so an editor that would allow me to fulfill my ideas without needing programming would be great!
@ARKdeEREH - the existing editors (DLTCEP etc.) don't require programming knowledge to use. If you're talking about making a new area, you do need graphic design knowledge, however, unless you are just recycling existing area graphics.
i have used all radiant editors up to GTK1.5, used the vietcong editor (terrible thing) the aurora and 3dsmax to create whole tilesets and all of them are less "strange" as the DLTCEP tool to be honest. Because all the apps make you feel you are actually building something.
I forgot the HOMM3 editor and the gothic2 thing...The only editor that realy threw me of like the one we have to use here was the farcry editor. That one was a one time firep up and never to be opened again:D
@NWN_babaYaga you use 3dsmax with dltcep too. You may want to try IETME if you want to build areas tile by tile.
I don't know what you meant by "strange" though. Editing areas (without doors/overlays) seems to be pretty simple.
Basically: you create the whole thing in 3dsmax, use as much pre-generated things as you have. Then export the whole stuff as a bmp and import the bmp into a tileset. That's about 3 clicks in dltcep. Adding walls is pretty simple too.
@Avenger_teambg - I wouldn't call adding walls "simple" - it takes a lot of point and clicking to establish all the vertices. DLTCEP should also assimilate Compton's wallgroup editor if it hasn't already (he gave you permission and you said you would try to incorporate it like 4 years ago.
The idea, as I understand it, is that you could draw all the wallgroups on a tileset as an exported .bmp (or the like) and then this tool (or DLTCEP) could read all those vertices in at once as XML or whatever. A lot more efficient and quicker than doing them one by one.
@Miloch his xml file works only in weingine. @Jcompton is there a public tool that generates this xml? Actually, i already have a polygon import/export functionality, so i could try reading the xml, though a cvs or some simpler format would be better. I'm not going to add all the xml parsing libraries to DLTCEP. It is already a huge monster (jpeg, zip, ogg/vorbis) are all in it.
Comments
Toolset for the Enhanced Infinity Engine
Mapping
BAMing
@TrentOster :
"DLTCEP is better than the original tools Bioware"
But some of us dreamed of a new Map Editor (tired of tandem IETME / DLTCEP ^^) !
And for my part an update of BamWorkShop or a new BAM Editor ...
Could you do something about it ?
-TY .
P.S. :
Of course these new/update/tools should be : -inter & -retro-compatible with BG.EE/BG Vanilla : )
-By default,
@BG.EE Team :
@Beamdog
@TrentOster
@PhillipDaigle
@ScottBrooks
@Nathan
@[...]
-Any chance to have some news of this requests ?
"A) Could you please, share, those old originals tools ? : "
1) Spell-O-Matic (Spell Editor), 2) Animation Editor, 3) Dialog Editor, 4) Itemizer (Item Editor)
"B) And could you share, at least, one of the full 3D animated IE models that could be remain in the Bioware's Server archives ... ? "
T.Y.
Source :
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/52585/#Comment_52585
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/53318/#Comment_53318
JC dropped an idea to our support board, and the idea was realized in a week (well, probably he had to repeat it a few times). Here is the dltcep request thread: http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=11868
If you have a tile library, you can also use dltcep as a "tileset builder". That's how doors are made, actually.
Possible creation of a toolset for the Enhanced Infinity engine ?
Modding Requests,
Ship Date Delay (*), & :
Communication Ethics
@BG.EE Team :
@Beamdog
@TrentOster
@PhillipDaigle
@ScottBrooks
@Nathan
@[...]
May be in the time allowed (*),
Except make new tools,
You could have the courtesy to answer to these requests, with sharing a few stuffs :
Models and/or Tools ?
Otherwise, please give some answers : even if only negatively or to say if requests are in study/progress ...
Again,
"-Any chance to have some news of this requests ?
"A) Could you please, share, those old originals tools ? : "
1) Spell-O-Matic (Spell Editor), 2) Animation Editor, 3) Dialog Editor, 4) Itemizer (Item Editor)
"B) And could you share, at least, one of the full 3D animated IE models that could be remain in the Bioware's Server archives ... ? "
Yes, No, and Why ?
TY, Again .
P.S.:
Avenger_teambg : congrats for DLTCEP updates, keep the faith ...
http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=23917
Dragonlance TC Editor Pro
Unofficial game file editor/checker/browser for IE (Infinity Engine) games.
Official game file editor for GemRB
Current version: V7.4e
Changes:
V7.4e
- fixed registering of AUX map changes when they first go into override
- language setting in WEIDU options (affects resource location too)
- removed buggy directory changing introduced in 7.4b
- fixed .gam editor to still start in the last savegame dir (you need to turn off 'always start in default folder')
V7.4d
- added composite dialog viewing mode (loads referenced dialogs into the treeview)
- fixed tileset saving broken in v7.4b
V7.4c
- check tags in tlk editor now works
- overlapping ambient check
- colliding region/doorname check
- fixed trigger searching in dialogs
- configurable area editor window size
V7.4b
- more checking/searching abilities for various filetypes
- file picker now starts in the same directory you left it previously (no more resetting to the override)
-
V7.4a
- can automatically correct some item corruptions caused by WeiDU.
- more updated fields from BGEE public information
- improved 2da/effect checking abilities
V7.4
- updated/clarified several unknown fields based on BGEE developer information
N.B.:
On our side,
We still hope to a new BAM Editor and Map Toolset .
http://www.baldursgateworld.fr/lacouronne/menace-sur-le-royaume-de-diamant-eternel/24576-conversion-des-animations-de-diablo-2-a-11.html#post296533
http://www.baldursgateworld.fr/lacouronne/menace-sur-le-royaume-de-diamant-eternel/24576-conversion-des-animations-de-diablo-2-a-11.html#post296556
http://www.baldursgateworld.fr/lacouronne/menace-sur-le-royaume-de-diamant-eternel/24516-base-et-ressources-documentaires.html#post294330
My estimates: 90% weidu.
If it is to be truly useful to modders, i.e., combines the functionality of all the various fan-developed editors used by the modding community, might as well call it a toolset, though.
This would certainly be a fitting giveback to the modding community for all its devotion and hard work lo these many years. I don't mean for this to sound entitled, lol. But I think most fans would agree that it would be a wonderful and well deserved gesture.
I'm all for rewarding hard work, but too often DLCs are seen as and used for, by the developer/producer, as a new revenue stream to "recoup" costs and bolster the bottom line.
Some people already work on making Shadowkeeper BGEE compatible.
But even without that, it will be relatively easy to use it for some basic editing.
But, you must make up your mind:
1. you want a minimal editor that barely scratches the surface
2. you want a toolset that is capable of editing all the files.
I'm positive that DLTCEP with WeiDU (they are integrated into a single tool), is capable of doing everything a modder or a developer needs. And NI is also modified to stay compatible.
@Miloch 90% may be a bit overestimation, but dialog/script stuff doesn't need dltcep, takes up the majority of the new content, and that is entirely done by weidu.
Most of the patches are submitted as a weidu script too.
What i really see missing from dltcep (because i still couldn't figure it out) is the .plt converter.
But the engine is happy with bam's for paperdoll, so this isn't really pressing.
I forgot the HOMM3 editor and the gothic2 thing...The only editor that realy threw me of like the one we have to use here was the farcry editor. That one was a one time firep up and never to be opened again:D
You may want to try IETME if you want to build areas tile by tile.
I don't know what you meant by "strange" though. Editing areas (without doors/overlays) seems to be pretty simple.
Basically: you create the whole thing in 3dsmax, use as much pre-generated things as you have.
Then export the whole stuff as a bmp and import the bmp into a tileset.
That's about 3 clicks in dltcep.
Adding walls is pretty simple too.
The idea, as I understand it, is that you could draw all the wallgroups on a tileset as an exported .bmp (or the like) and then this tool (or DLTCEP) could read all those vertices in at once as XML or whatever. A lot more efficient and quicker than doing them one by one.
http://www.shsforums.net/topic/32402-lionheart-extracting-the-maps/page__view__findpost__p__395530
Actually, i already have a polygon import/export functionality, so i could try reading the xml, though a cvs or some simpler format would be better. I'm not going to add all the xml parsing libraries to DLTCEP. It is already a huge monster (jpeg, zip, ogg/vorbis) are all in it.
@BG.EE Team :
Work In Progress ?