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BG2 Tweaks, good to go for BG:EE

CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,439
edited August 2012 in General Modding
I've spent a pleasant weekend with BGEE and BG2 Tweaks, and I'm pleased to say BG2 Tweaks is fully working on the current beta build, with a major caveat--we'll still need a new version of WeiDU for distribution.

Comments

  • BerconBercon Member Posts: 485
    Is anybody working on update to WeiDU? And just out of interest, how are the official DLCs released without using WeiDU or are they completely incompatible with mods?
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    I imagine that DLCs and official updates will patch the game directly, instead of adding stuff by throwing them into the override folder.

    I'm not a programmer, so my opinion is basically made as an outsider, but I imagine that stuff from Overhaul will only appear in the Override folder if its some kind of quick hotfix to problems.
  • BerconBercon Member Posts: 485
    @Tanthalas The problem is that every single string you see in game (like item names, creature names, descriptions, dialogs etc.) come from single file. All mods have to edit that file. All official DLCs will have to edit that file (unless they do things with magic). So, either the DLCs use system similar to WeiDU or WeiDU and are compatible with mods. If not then the DLCs will require a clean install of the game without mods, and mods can only be installed on top of that game after DLCs have been installed.

    @CamDawg Really good to hear that. Just in case I fetched WeiDUs source codes and took a peek. Thank god I don't have to start editing those. I don't even know what language it is.
  • jcomptonjcompton Member Posts: 157
    Bercon said:

    I don't even know what language it is.

    Ocaml, the choice of French computer scientists everywhere! (Everywhere in France, that is.)
    Tanthalas said:

    I imagine that DLCs and official updates will patch the game directly, instead of adding stuff by throwing them into the override folder.

    ...you've never looked at the size of the override folder in the five shipped Infinity titles, have you?
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    jcompton said:


    ...you've never looked at the size of the override folder in the five shipped Infinity titles, have you?

    Lol, ok it looks like I'm wrong.
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,533
    Things could still change for BG:EE... could they not?
  • jcomptonjcompton Member Posts: 157
    Is your question "Is it possible that BGEE could ship with a clean override folder?"

    In theory, that's certainly possible.

    In practice, it's historically unlikely and technologically unnecessary. There is nothing inherently "bad" or "unclean" about files being in override.
  • cmorgancmorgan Member Posts: 707
    It doesn't matter if they do or not; any weidu mod that comes along, including BG2Tweaks, will read the source files (even if in .bif), copy the original file to backup for safe uninstallation, make the changes, and place the changed file in the override.
  • MilochMiloch Member Posts: 863
    edited August 2012
    It does matter actually. Empirically, Tutu is much quicker if you simply biff the override (i.e. move the files out of the override folder and into .bif archives) rather than leave the 7300 shipped files there. What mods do is what they do - a lot of the larger ones (Tutu excluded) do biff their own files. Others don't bother, perhaps on the assumption that an end-biffing mod (e.g. Generalised Biffing) will do it. I have been persuaded that Infinity Animations should biff its own files, again, due to the vast number/size of override-dumped files (and associated complaints that the game won't run after - nevermind it says in the readme to biff after installing the mod).

    Edit: sorry Cam, I guess that's a bit OT. So what about BG1 Tweaks then, being that a lot of BG2 Tweaks are specific to BG2?
  • jcomptonjcompton Member Posts: 157
    ...yes, I knew someone would eventually come along and say "what do you mean by this, too many files in override can slow things down!"

    I suspect the refined engine will be less susceptible to these kinds of issues.

    The broader point that "override is not inherently bad" still stands. Yes, it's possible to create situations where there can be "too much." No, it doesn't follow that "nothing in override" is necessary. I know there are superstitious types who absolutely insist on biffing every single resource in their game.
  • MilochMiloch Member Posts: 863
    jcompton said:

    I suspect the refined engine will be less susceptible to these kinds of issues.

    Possibly, but I think it's more of a disk-access/OS archaism issue. It's more efficient to open a single file (like a .bif) and access a bunch of different parts of it than to access a bunch of different files on the disk. Also, it's a disk space issue. Those 7300 override files are "only" 43 megabytes. However, they take up 64 megabytes of disk space, since every separate file needs a separate block of disk space in the OS.

    I don't think anyone's said there can't be any files in the override - it serves a purpose obviously, or it wouldn't be there (as do the similar folders that act the same - portraits etc.). I personally would prefer to see files like .ids files in the override instead of the biffs, but that is merely a modder convenience rather than a player convenience (and not really much of a modder convenience given that modding tools can look it up faster in a biff than me trying to page through the override for it).

    I think there is an argument for not putting a bunch of garbage files in the override (considering also it's probably cluttered with actually useful files) but it's an argument that's been done to death elsewhere and is not only off-topic but probably irrelevant to BG:EE. But it goes along the lines of "technologically unnecessary" to use your words.
  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736
    Override size matters, that is a known and confirmed fact. Thus there is nothing inherently wrong with cleaning it. And the engine does need to be refined first for the issue be gone. I have no knowledge if it has happened already.
  • DavidWDavidW Member Posts: 823
    21 MB is basically irrelevant considering the size of modern hard drives.
  • BerconBercon Member Posts: 485
    Modern hard drives (spinning ones, not SSD) still don't handle multiple files well. You'll probably read one 100MB file faster than 100 1KB files even tho it is 1000 times larger. Using SSD helps, but nearly all modern file systems also suck with large number of files. 50 000 files in same directory will bring any OS to its knees no matter how small they are.
  • EpitomyofShynessEpitomyofShyness Member Posts: 113
    @jcompton I just wanted to thank you for making BG2 Tweaks compatible with BG:EE, it is a mod I never play without.
  • jcomptonjcompton Member Posts: 157
    edited August 2012
    It was @CamDawg who did the work, I just hang around forums and yell at people. But I graciously accept your thanks on his behalf.
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,344
    Great news, hopefully many more mods will follow in the weeks leading up to release. @CamDawg How much work was the adaptation?
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,439
    I'm not sure how much detail I can mention since I'm NDA'd as a beta tester, but the main stumbling block was simply that strings and resources from SoA may or may not be present. Since Tweaks is already aimed at vanilla SoA, ToB, BGT, and Tutu, it was mainly a matter of blocking off components as appropriate, adding a layer to the existing conditionals, or including a few more SoA resources in the mod itself.
  • triclops41triclops41 Member Posts: 207
    CamDawg said:

    I'm not sure how much detail I can mention since I'm NDA'd as a beta tester, but the main stumbling block was simply that strings and resources from SoA may or may not be present. Since Tweaks is already aimed at vanilla SoA, ToB, BGT, and Tutu, it was mainly a matter of blocking off components as appropriate, adding a layer to the existing conditionals, or including a few more SoA resources in the mod itself.

    I would love a thread with mods confirmed to work with BGEE
  • Tr_ondTr_ond Member Posts: 496
    @triclops41 Agreed, or better yet, A separate category for compatible mods so they don`t drown in mod requests and such.
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,533
    I'm on it, guys- I just need mod authors to provide me with the relevant information ;)
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,582
    Bitchin' camaro dude!
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