A few questions about Monk

Manveru123

Hello. Recently while playing a Monk I've noticed that they can now use an offhand weapon. Apparently I can use my fist as a "main hand" and scarlet ninja to in my offhand, which does give me rather severe THAC0 penalty (I went from 7 to 11/15), but improves my attacks per round (I went from 5/2 to 9/2, that's almost double). Since I haven't played Monk much and I'm kinda clueless about them, there are a few things I would like to ask.

Will Gauntlets of Crushing and Gauntlets of Aln Zekk work when I have a weapon in my offhand? Technically I'm still using my fist so I guess they should, but do they?

From the perspective of a solo Monk, is it worth it to take a hit to THAC0 to get more attacks per round? Will this actually improve my damage overall?

Thanks in advance for any help.

elminster

Nah its not worth it. I haven't tested the gauntlets to see how they interact with the scarlet ninja to.

DreadKhan

In regards to your THAC0 question, it really depends on your enemy a bit, as high AC enemies (not very many really) will get even hit less, but low AC enemies will likely get hit more. Hmm... let me throw some probabilities at you:

If an enemy has an AC of 0, you hit on an unarmed attack 65% of the time, or 1.62 hits per round. If you are using the ninja-to also, vs AC 0 you can expect to hit 1.57 times and .25 hits with the ninja-to, which only makes 1 apr at the very poor THAC0, and probably does less damage, but adds poison. Vs an AC 0 or worse enemy, use the ninja-to!

Vs AC -10, completely unarmed you hit 20% of the time, for .5 hits per round. With the weapon, your THAC0 will only hit on a natural 20, so you can expect only .175 hits per round with your fist, and .05 hits with your ninja-to, for .225 hits per round, which is worse, but not that much worse actually.

Vs AC -15, unarmed you hit on a 20, so you have .125 hits per round, while armed you hit .225 times still, so a small net advantage.

So, vs very easy or enemies requiring a 20 to hit all the time, use the ninja-to.

Tbh, compared to figuring out if using Flurry of Blows in 3.0 is worth using was way more tedius, hooray for 2nd ed.

DreadKhan

Make sure you have the game set to show your rolls... pay attention to what will hit and what misses to decide if you want to use your off hand.

elminster

I'll correct myself having looked over what DreadKhan posted. It is worth it. Your actual damage however may reach a point where it won't vary by much however. For instance


If you have 7 Thac0 and an enemy has 5 AC, you'd hit 95% of the time with 2.5 (5/2) apr (2.4 hits/round)

With 11 Thac0 and 3.5 fist attacks/round (given to you by the ninja-to) you'd hit 75% of the time (or 2.6 hits/round). You'd also have a 50% chance of hitting with the ninja to.

If you have 7 Thac0, and an enemy has 0 AC, you'd hit 70% of the time (or 1.75 hits/round with 2.5 apr).

If you have 11 Thac0 you'd hit 50% of the time (or 1.75 hits/round of fists). At 15 Thac0 you'd have a 30% chance of hitting 1 time/round with the scarlet ninja to.

I'd continue but you get the general idea from this (its going to be pretty much the same especially as your monk gains increased innate apr). As you level up your fists will do more damage and your Thac0 will improve, which sort of makes examinations like this difficult. There also comes a point for monks/warriors, at least in SoA, where your Thac0 is so good that you'll rarely miss the enemies you are fighting. So the actual amount of damage between both approaches probably will be similar.

Ohh and I checked and for the record the gauntlets will boost your fist attacks but not your ninja-to attack. But the ninja to only represents 1 attack/round normally.

DreadKhan

Considering you are talking about from a soloing perspective, by lvl 20 you shouldnt be missing much, so I'd wager you'll often be using the ninja-to... as a solo, you'll have great heaping piles of xp by the time you're done most of the sidequests, so while a non-solo might need the better THAC0, yours would already be pretty damn high. ToB might make it sensible to not use the offhand, but that extra attack is a pretty interesting boost.

Critical Strike might be able to offer some interesting synergy in ToB, but I'll run the numbers tomorrow if nobody else ninjas me. But I suspect you'll want more crits vs gww, and for a solo monk using that speed weapon, even moreso.

Manveru123

Thanks for all input. However, since Monk cannot be hasted, I don't think Critical Strike will be better than GWW, especially since some enemies are immune to crits, and taking this HLA just for max attack bonus seems to be a waste.

I might be wrong, since I don't know how many aps can I get in ToB as a Monk, but I don't think I can max it out without GWW.

elminster

Well the real benefit of critical strike as an ability is that it guarantees that all your attacks hit.

Even in extreme fights (say someone fighting you that has -18 AC) I doubt critical strike would prove to be more useful than gww. A level 25 monk with 22 strength (from belt) and the gauntlets of crushing has -12 thac0. You'd have a 75% chance of hitting this -18 opponent and at 10 APR, with fists that do 19 to 38 damage (28.5 average damage), you'd do an average of 213 damage/round.

Compare that to 4x28.5 (fists) + 17.5 average damage from the Scarlet Ninja To. Meaning 131.5 average damage.

So basically I'd say once you get GWW stick with using that instead of the ninja-to.

DreadKhan

Hmm... do speed weapons allow you to break the 5 apr limit? If not, then definately dont bother, 4 accurate whacks is good enough.

You arent going to be a damage machine, but you won't suck definately. Why use that belt though? 18 + tome + watchers Keep + hell, (which stat do monks boost via the Deck? Wis?) wont that leave you around there anyways, or close enough the Inertial Barrier might be better? Your MR will be good, but some spells will get past and you arent long on HP. Once you get 90% I'd stop bothering with the belt though, but I dont know if any are really worth wearing.

Manveru123

IIRC you can get 21 base STR in total, so even discounting MR (does it stack with innate MR though?) you get bonus to saves vs breath and some resistance to missile damage vs 1 STR. In comparison, other belts kinda suck.

elminster

The belt of inertial barrier actually gives 50% magic damage resistance. Its not the same thing as magic resistance and the two work separately. Basically it would mean that if you got hit by say a Horrid Wilting, and your magic resistance didn't prevent it, you would only take 1/2 damage (on top of possibly taking 1/2 damage from making a saving throw).

The choice of belt though wasn't really what I was getting at anyways.

DreadKhan

I know, and I agree presuming the 5 apr cap especially regarding gww.

I know I had more than 21 str before as a fighter thief... taking the Evil choice at Wrath nabs +2 str according to a site Ijust checked. Which could be wrong, but I thought it was there anyway. A bonus to wis and cha seems really, uh, terrible, but that would put you at 22 strength regardless of the Deck, with the tome in BG1 and Lum's Machine. Just looked, looks like the deck considers you a priest. So Wis +1, which sucks. Warriors can get 1 more Str.

Manveru123

elminster said:

The belt of inertial barrier actually gives 50% magic damage resistance. Its not the same thing as magic resistance and the two work separately. Basically it would mean that if you got hit by say a Horrid Wilting, and your magic resistance didn't prevent it, you would only take 1/2 damage (on top of possibly taking 1/2 damage from making a saving throw).

The choice of belt though wasn't really what I was getting at anyways.

But doesn't Monk's innate MR at max level+hell bonus+gaxx+amulet of power=103% anyway? Nothing can get through at this point. When you get there, that is. Good catch though, somehow I never realized that it works like that

Are there actually any major elemental attacks (used by enemies) not classified as magic?

DreadKhan

Yeah, mostly fire iirc.

elminster

Well for one thing monks can't wear the amulet of power. They can however wear other amulets that grant either 5 or 10% magic resistance. The only reason I would wear it when you are at the point of 100%+ magic resistance is for the save vs breath protection (since its by far your highest saving throw otherwise).

Are there actually any major elemental attacks (used by enemies) not classified as magic?

If you are asking if there are any spells used by enemies that would ignore your magic resistance then yes. Dragon's have abilities for instance (like dragon fear) that do bypass your magic resistance (though in that case you also have to lose a save vs spell at -4 for it to work). Some dragon's (like silver dragons) also have elemental attacks that will bypass your magic resistance.

Gotural

Let's not forget the mage HLA Dragon's Breath which also bypass MR.