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New Bard Kit proposal - the Gallant

FunkaveFunkave Member Posts: 31
edited October 2014 in General Modding
While reading through the The Complete Bard's Handbook (2E rulebook) I found a kit which I have never seen recreated by modders and which could bridge the gap between a bard and paladin: the Gallant.

Several other kits do the same and I enjoy more the experience of playing single class that multi (i.e. Stalker as ranger/thief, Swashbuckler as fighter/thief, Blade instead of FMT etc..)

So, based on the information from the handbook, I would like to see a kit with these characteristics:

Advantages:
- May achieve Mastery (three slots) in spears.
- may achieve Specialization (two slots) in long sword and bastard sword.
- Gains Essence of purity as innate passive ability (at lvl X?).

ESSENCE OF PURITY: Because Gallants are so infused with love, beauty, and the aspirations of a romantic, they seem to hang onto life when others would allow it to slip away. Thus, Gallants gain a bonus of 1 hit point each level (in addition to any Constitution bonuses). Furthermore, if a Gallant fails a saving throw that will result in his death, the saving throw is
re-rolled for a second chance.

- Gains Code of the Gallant as innate ability (at lvl X?).

CODE OF THE GALLANT: Gallants all live by a code of ethics that has slowly evolved over the years. If a Gallant is true to this code, he gains an inner confidence and peace that results in a +2 bonus that can be applied to either his attack roll, damage roll, Armor Class, or saving throw each round.


Disadvantages
- Bard song does not improve with levels.
- Must be of Neutral Good alignment
- May not Pick Pockets
- Has only half the normal Lore value
- (- X spell slots per lvl?)


Unfortunately I am not a modder but I will probably try to learn the basics and create this kit by myself.

I have no idea however if a double save against Death can be implementer, and how to organize the code of the Gallant ability (maybe one ability for each saving throw?) Ideas on HLAs?
Post edited by Funkave on

Comments

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  • Yeah, I'm not sure a double save is feasible in this engine; you could always replace it with a small bonus to saves vs. death. For Code of the Gallant, I'd be tempted to just simplify it into a spell effect that already exists. Maybe give a certain number of uses of Aid (self-targeting only) per day that increase as you level? For HLAs, an easy one would be giving access to Summon Deva as an innate ability like Paladins get. Perhaps also one that "upgrades" Essence of Purity into a permanent immunity to death effects (ala Death Ward)? Since Swashbucklers (the Thief/Fighter bridge) get Whirlwind, I could see Gallants getting Power Attack.

    I'd like to see this kit get made if only because I like Bard and Paladins and need a good excuse to play a spear-focused character.
  • FunkaveFunkave Member Posts: 31
    edited October 2014
    Thank you guys for your feedback! Unfortunately I was sharing the same concerns of Subtledoctor, however I think we can always simplify things a bit.

    Kaigen, I agree nearly everything you said. And to be honest I was exactly thinking about the same HLAs, one from a paladin class and one from a fighter, power attack seems very good. And this is in line with rogue re-balancing spirit, where Blades and Swashbucklers get whirlwind.

    What if Essence of Purity would just be a +1 HP bonus and a growing save against Death bonus?

    Moreover your idea of adapting the Aid spell for Code of the Gallant, and making it improving at certain levels, seems good enough.

    I think this is all very doable! :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited October 2014
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  • FunkaveFunkave Member Posts: 31
    edited October 2014
    Well, the idea of the spear, plus long and bastard swords comes from this description from the bard handbook, this guy is definitely less into performing than the other bard types:

    "Weapon Proficiencies: Gallants must select the jousting lance for use in tournaments.
    Being the romantic fighters that they are, it is important that Gallants always keep their weapons
    in perfect order and well polished."

    Imho I would stick a bit more to the PnP idea, but I understand you point. Bonuses to hit and damage, but penalties to spell casting (like casting time, or no necromancy: I imagine the guy focused on saving the princess, magic requires too much concentration eheh) or maybe a penalty to AC whenever Code of the Gallant is active?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited October 2014
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  • FunkaveFunkave Member Posts: 31
    well Subtledoctor, I couldn't ask for anything better :) What about the weapon proficiencies, and the other "formal" disadvantages I have proposed? Too powerful?
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  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    Pick pocket skills can usually be used for any type of sleight of hand... maybe he does magic tricks to impress Ladies in Waiting?
  • FunkaveFunkave Member Posts: 31
    Regarding the pickpocket at 1/4, I think it is a fair compromise, after all it is still a Bard, not a paladin. And the alignment as well could just remain neutral good only.

    Feel free to include it in you SoB mod, which I am already using it by the way, exept the proficiencies overhaul which I find it a bit too much of a modification, but hey it's just me.

    Keep up with your incredible work!
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,582

    Oh yeah that stuff too. I forget how to mod pickpockets and lore, but I'm pretty sure it's not too hard. I recall a bug that you cannot just disable a bard's pickpocket button, which would be the ideal method; but perhaps we can just reduce it to 1/4 advancement or something, make it as useless as possible. I'll investigate.

    I would think that Lawful Good should be available, along with NG, if it's meant to be a "paladin-like" bard.

    I'll take a crack at it, should have something coded up by the end of the week. I can post a simple version of the kit here, but if you have no great objection I'd also like to include it as a component in my mod as well.

    Removing pickpocket skill is very easy in bgee (enter a zero in the proper entry in thiefscl.2da). In vanilla, I think you have to do it via spl's in the clab.

    Lore must be modified via spl in the clab in both versions I believe
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited October 2014
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  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,582

    Well I'm not gonna make an EE-only mod (and I think a lot of people around here should do more to ensure compatibility with different versions of the game), so I have to do it the hard way.

    Yeah, but there are some things that can be done with one version, but not the other...

    Personally, I consider it a failure of bgee that there are some things you can't do in bgee--eg remove critical hit protection from helmets; implement a version of 3e concentration to keep spells after being hit--that you can do in vanilla /rant

    Wait, what were we talking about?

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    edited October 2014
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  • DawgliciousDawglicious Member Posts: 224
    What about "Heart of Valor?"
  • FunkaveFunkave Member Posts: 31
    Well it could be redundant but.. "Gallantry"? :P Just kidding, "Heroism" sounds ok to me :P
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
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  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,819
    @subtledoctor did you checked 3rd edition variant of Gallant made by Thomas M. Costa? You can find it here, just unpack it. You may find some inspiration there.
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  • DawgliciousDawglicious Member Posts: 224
    I like the adding Protection from Evil. Since this is a bard kit designed around battling, things that give him an edge like that are definitely welcome.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
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  • DawgliciousDawglicious Member Posts: 224
    Is there anyway to make "Heart of Valor" improve at higher levels? For instance, from levels 1-8 it does the basic Aid, but from 9 and up it adds 2-16 HP instead (a double aid?) Or have it perhaps add a thaco and/or AC bonus? The ability to gain 1-8 HP is just very unimpressive once you get into BG2 (especially so since you could end up only gaining 1)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited October 2014
    What if at a certain level you just maximized the bonus hp roll on Heart of Valor so that it gives 8 bonus hit points every time (or even slowly increase the minimum bonus as the Gallant levels if you want it to be more gradual)? Honestly, I think the temp HP is mostly gravy past the first few levels, as the bonus to attack and saves are where the real value is. If you're throwing this up before every fight, though, an extra 8 HP of incidental damage you don't have to heal will add up.

    Edit: @subtledoctor‌ I just tried to install the stand alone kit on my BGEE install (renaming SoB.tp2 to gallant.tp2) and I got "Sys_error("SoB/lib/fl#add_kit_ee.tpa: No such file or directory")."
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited October 2014
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  • FunkaveFunkave Member Posts: 31


    It appears that the Aid effect is hardcoded, so I can't change the hp. I could just make a brand new spell from scratch, but that would take time. (RL is killing me at the moment.) But Heart of Valor does indeed improve at 9th level, turning into a combined Aid + Prot. from Evil.

    I think the "Spiritual Harmony" ability from the Sword Saint kit in the Refinements mod can help you in creating a more specific ability for the Gallant, if you take a look at the code. But what you created already is satisfactory. What about a fatigue effect after it, or any kind of trade-off for using this ability?
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