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Thief skills/proficiencies - total gibberish to me, please help.

dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,603
in Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
After much searching through past threads I've worked out that differentiating between Hide in Shadows and Move Silently when allocating proficiencies is basically pointless as there is only one usable button (Stealth) for two skills.

Now I'm trying to get my head around Finding and Disarming traps: These are two distinct actions, yet there is only one proficiency slot (Detect Traps).

I'm currently in Durlag's Tower with my thief (Safana) at lvl 8. with 60 in find traps. She has no problem finding traps but is struggling to disarm most of them. So, ok I bite the bullet and send my tank through to take the hits, no problem. The problem is with trapped chests: Safana can't get past the traps to unlock the chests and I can't set the trap off with my tank because he has to try to unlock it first. So, Neera casts knock, unlocks the chest, opens it and gets smeared all over the walls by the trap going off. Ok, I send Neera in to unlock the chest and retreat, then send the tank in to open the unlocked chest and take the hits - but the chest is locked again.

Can someone please explain what I've overlooked or am doing wrongly?

Comments

  • LuridelLuridel Member Posts: 25
    The detect traps skill is associated with both detecting the traps and disarming the traps. Some (most?) traps are easier to find than they are to disarm.

    Once a trap is detected (through activating detect traps and having it highlight red), interacting with the chest with the thievery skill will prioritize disarming the trap - that means you have to first disarm the trap and then unlock the chest, which takes two uses of the thief skill.

    Neera using knock on the chest and having it remain locked is a bit odd - I'm not sure what happened there. I don't -think- knock is intended to interact with traps in any way.
  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,603
    Thanks, I understand your first point but what I'm asking in that respect is, how do I increase her trap disarming skills when there is no "Disarm Traps" slot to put proficiency points into?
  • LuridelLuridel Member Posts: 25
    You increase her trap-disarming skills by putting more points into the find traps skill. That same skill goes towards both finding and disarming traps.
  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,603
    Right, Thanks. So is Detect Trap stat a percentage (i.e. with 60 in DT you have a 60% chance of disarming any trap) or does it work like THACO?
    Sorry to go on about this but I'm genuinely looking for clarity.
  • MerinaMerina Member Posts: 303
    That sounds too me like you complicate matters. ;)

    Think of it like this: Some traps may be hidden more well than others, and some traps, when found, may be more difficult to disarm. There is a fixed number attached to the trap. Your skill must be higher (or equal).

    A skill of 60 for Durlag's Tower is not enough. Even Imoen's pretty standard 85 skill when dual-classing her into a mage is not enough for the tower dungeons. It then needs potions to increase her skill for a few chests/areas. Including the bonus of items or potions, try to increase the skill beyond 85. 100 will be safe, probably 95 already for BGEE. And yes, Safana will need to focus on either traps, hiding in shadows or pick-pocketing. Don't try to make her advance in all skills. The game ends too soon, and the level cap won't let her advance further.
  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,603
    Yes, it's a bad habit I have. Point taken about Safana and Durlag's - thanks, though I'd still like to know about the Knock issue (but it would probably just make my head hurt).
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited October 2014
    Its closer to working like Thac0.

    Every trap in the game has a "trap detection difficulty" and a "trap removal difficulty". Your chance at trap detection is based on your Find Traps skill (there is a priest spell that can also do this). Trap removal difficulty is based on your Open Locks skill. In order to stand a chance of detecting or removing a trap you need to be within 5 points of that traps detection/removal difficulty number.

    So if a trap's detection number is 55, you need at least a 50 in find traps to have a chance of detecting it. If you want to remove that trap (and its removal difficulty is 55) you need to have 50 in Open Locks in order to remove it. You don't need to put towards Find Traps however in order to successfully remove them. Find Traps (the 2nd level priest spell) also can detect them for you and you can remove them based on your Open Locks skill.

    From testing it looks like I was wrong. Find Traps is exclusively involved here.

    There isn't any way in the game to know the number of the trap either. You have to check using something like Near Infinity if you want to know (though the easiest thing to do is to just pump up your skill).

    There is also something called "luck" and if you have bonuses towards that (could be from a spell or item) it will also give you a 5%+ (depends on the degree of the bonus) better chance of opening a lock, removing a trap, etc). Its a pretty rare bonus to be found though (Alora gets it through her rabbit foot and you can get it with a wizard spell).
    Post edited by elminster on
  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,603
    Ahhh, the light dawns, enabling me to stumble onwards. Thanks.
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,307
    elminster said:

    Its closer to working like Thac0.

    Every trap in the game has a "trap detection difficulty" and a "trap removal difficulty". Your chance at trap detection is based on your Find Traps skill (there is a priest spell that can also do this). Trap removal difficulty is based on your Open Locks skill. In order to stand a chance of detecting or removing a trap you need to be within 5 points of that traps detection/removal difficulty number.

    So if a trap's detection number is 55, you need at least a 50 in find traps to have a chance of detecting it. If you want to remove that trap (and its removal difficulty is 55) you need to have 50 in Open Locks in order to remove it. You don't need to put towards Find Traps however in order to successfully remove them. Find Traps (the 2nd level priest spell) also can detect them for you and you can remove them based on your Open Locks skill.

    There isn't any way in the game to know the number of the trap either. You have to check using something like Near Infinity if you want to know (though the easiest thing to do is to just pump up your skill).

    If you are having trouble removing traps then Erdane outside of Durlag's tower also sells Potions of Master Thievery which should help boost your Open Locks skill. They even stack if your skill is really low (there isn't any value in having over 100 in open locks or find traps though).

    There is also something called "luck" and if you have bonuses towards that (could be from a spell or item) it will also give you a 5%+ (depends on the degree of the bonus) better chance of opening a lock, removing a trap, etc). Its a pretty rare bonus to be found though (Alora gets it through her rabbit foot and you can get it with a wizard spell).

    Wow....
    Umpteen years of playing these games and I never knew that disarming traps used the lockpicking skill tree...
    It does make sense, logically.

    I guess I never found out as I always just pump both those skills ahead of anything else.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    Wait, I really don't think that works like that. I need to check with a 100 in find traps and 0 in open locks thief and attempt to disarm some traps.
  • SedSed Member Posts: 790
    A general approach for thieves in BG:EE is to boost open locks and find traps first, and focus on the other skills later.
    If you got a bard in your team you can skip pick pockets for your thief
  • TheGraveDiggerTheGraveDigger Member Posts: 336
    elminster said:

    ...Trap removal difficulty is based on your Open Locks skill. In order to stand a chance of detecting or removing a trap you need to be within 5 points of that traps detection/removal difficulty number.

    So if a trap's detection number is 55, you need at least a 50 in find traps to have a chance of detecting it. If you want to remove that trap (and its removal difficulty is 55) you need to have 50 in Open Locks in order to remove it.

    Are you sure? I never put points in Open Locks, I just use Knock or try to break it. I always spend my point in Find Traps and Set Snares, and never have problems disarming anything in BG1.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited October 2014
    Yea looks like I was wrong. Nice theory on my part though :p

    I tested it and it looks like Find Traps is exclusively involved.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    elminster said:

    Yea looks like I was wrong. Nice theory on my part though :p

    I tested it and it looks like Find Traps is exclusively involved.

    Quit newbie baiting. ;)
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