Does a game have more depth...
ajwz
Member Posts: 4,122
...on the second playthrough?
I find myself, in a lot of games - particularly rpgs, enjoying the second, third and forth playthroughs of the game even more than the first.
The idea of enjoying playing through a load of content I have already experienced may sound strange but on subsequent playthroughs, the more strategic elements of the game come into effect, and the planning and strategy aspect take over from the exploring aspect.
For example, when I first got the ToTSC expansion, I played through the game 2-3 times more before I tested out the new content outside of Ulgoth's beard. However, once I had completed it once, I was able to sort of incorporate it into my planning for subsequent playthroughs.
Of course, this doesn't hold true for a lot of games. Most games released today I will rarely playthrough more than once, even the ones I enjoy. One of the causes of this I think is the idea of being able to acheive an "ultimate save file" or a "true ending" as the case may be, instead of just alternatives.
As a side effect, I often find that the point where a games exploration point is done and the final stages through to the end boss begin is the point where I will most often stop playing. In bg2 I will typically play up until the point where you need to enter sundellasar and then stop.
In summary, this is one of the reasons bg is one of my favourite games - as a strategy rpg, the strategy kicks in even after the rpg has "worn off", something which seems all too rare nowadays.
Anyway, sorry for the rambling post, I was just interested if anyone else though this way?
I find myself, in a lot of games - particularly rpgs, enjoying the second, third and forth playthroughs of the game even more than the first.
The idea of enjoying playing through a load of content I have already experienced may sound strange but on subsequent playthroughs, the more strategic elements of the game come into effect, and the planning and strategy aspect take over from the exploring aspect.
For example, when I first got the ToTSC expansion, I played through the game 2-3 times more before I tested out the new content outside of Ulgoth's beard. However, once I had completed it once, I was able to sort of incorporate it into my planning for subsequent playthroughs.
Of course, this doesn't hold true for a lot of games. Most games released today I will rarely playthrough more than once, even the ones I enjoy. One of the causes of this I think is the idea of being able to acheive an "ultimate save file" or a "true ending" as the case may be, instead of just alternatives.
As a side effect, I often find that the point where a games exploration point is done and the final stages through to the end boss begin is the point where I will most often stop playing. In bg2 I will typically play up until the point where you need to enter sundellasar and then stop.
In summary, this is one of the reasons bg is one of my favourite games - as a strategy rpg, the strategy kicks in even after the rpg has "worn off", something which seems all too rare nowadays.
Anyway, sorry for the rambling post, I was just interested if anyone else though this way?
2
Comments
I guess you can say Baldur's Gate has the greatest replay value of them all.
In BG1 & 2 the NPCs you'd pick up on the way all have their own little secrets and side quests. Especially the party banter and feuds are interesting a lot.
From a mechanical standpoint, this can be interesting because your playthrough can be potentially richer: with you exploring corners of the Sword Coast in ways that you wouldn't dare to in the first time you played.
However, storywise, this can also be uninteresting because now you won't even try to be careful. You now know those two obviously evil dopes that you met right after your attempted murder in the beginning of the game aren't a threat, so you have no reason to leave them be. Let's not even talk about what puzzles there are in Baldur's Gate.
As far as Baldur's Gate is concerned, what has lasting impact are the mechanics and the story they tell (combat). The story told via dialogue doesn't have a wide enough realm of possibilities to allow much replayability.
As for IWD - the lack of NPC personalities kills it for me. Fun game, but not re-playable or all that memorable for me.
While the game makes your ending goal clear, it presents you with way more options than you need to reach that goal. After completing it, you know you didn't explore even half of these options. These options are all interesting and unique, so you return to do each and every one.
Since I got an xbox I don't think I've ever done a second playthrough of a "modern/new" game. I've tried but I get bored after an hour or two. There is something very depressing about that.
Second run you want to do things better...
Third run you want to try diff NPC's...
Fourth run you want to multiclass...
Fifth run you want to make a party of your own from the beginning... Who need's NPC's anyway
Sixth run...
Seventh run...
...
.....
.......
After a thousand runs, 10years passed and now we are ready to RESET the counters!!!!
PS What??? Yes I know??? I am addicted...and I LOVE IT
For me part of the charm of BG:EE is that it has been a significant period since my last playthrough (6 or so years). Many of the sidequests details have been forgotten. Of course you never forget the maps or the grand plot. But all those little nuances that are re-revealed make the experience compelling.
Perhaps in that sense a game has less depth on a second playthrough as some of the mechanics underlying narrative choice are laid bare. Railroaded sections and inconsequential choices become clear. In this way the game loses some of its magic and its emotional depth. Some games are worse in this aspect than others (Dragon Age II is one that made me feel extremely railroaded the second time through)
On a different level though as others and OP have mentioned with a game like BG, the differing party banters, the different mechanical experience of playing with a different party, the foreshadowings, the speedrunning, the in-jokes, building the perfect character, levelling up really quick by hitting the best areas(Siren hunting to the south of Candlekeep is always a risky but potentially rewarding prospect with plenty of gold and XP).
First game IWD1, no idea what was going to happen, Paladin, Ranger, Cleric, Druid, Thief, Wizard
Second Game, IWD2, no idea what was going to happen, same party
Third game, IWD2, throw in as many weird races as possible, Drow Sorcerer, Aasimar Dreadmaster of Bane, Tiefling Rogue, Duergar Druid, Half Orc Barbarian, Ghostwise Halfling Fighter (this made levelling a biiiitch)
Fourth Game, IWD2, Melee party, Dwarf Fighter, Dwarf Fighter, Dwarf Barbarian, Duergar Barbarian, Gold Dwarf Cleric of Tempus, Dwarf Fighter/Rogue
Fifth Game, Magic Party, no idea what the races were, but two sorcerers, a cleric of Mystra and three specialist wizards.
Those are the main runs, I've also done a few in between because I hadn't played in a while or just felt like it. The last game was the most challenging; you really need some meatshields to keep people alive and summons really don't cut it!
Anyway, these games (especially the last two) changed every encounter in the game which to me is far more interesting than multiple quest outcomes.
I personally enjoy my second playthrough most, usually. I find the game confusing the first time, I get lost, confused by mechanics and myriads of quests, find out halfway that my character build is inefficient or that I've been wasting resources and missing clues.
The second time I play I get the full experience, the first time is usually a clumsy mess.
The first run of any RPG I play I just follow the main quest (and to enjoy a romance if I happen upon one), meandering into side-quests only if they pop up along the way and don't require me going off god knows where to do god knows what for N hours.
The subsequent N runs I pick weird party combinations (if it's a party based game), focus on finding sidequests, test out all interesting PC class/race combos and game+metagame through the remaining romances (if they are available).
The reason I loved BG is that it was the sort of game that lent itself to my playing strategy without involving too many deus ex machina moments.
For the same reason I didn't like BG2 quite as much (still put over 100 hours in it :>). It's hard to roleplay a game for the first time when the game seems hellbent on changing the course you built for your character and turning the stuff you had planned for them on its head.
I remember that my first BG character was an evil elven fighter who picked enemies off with a bow. She fell in love with Xzar (disturbed maniac that he was... "Your voice is ambrosia" worked every time :>)
My first 5 runs of BG2 I didn't get past Chateau Irenicus but by then I knew I disliked Jaheira as much as in BG. First IWD2 run the party was led by a Drow sorceress;
My Soldier from ME looked like a stern German governess like in those bad movies;
First NWN2 run I played another Drow and was upset at how tiny I looked; upset at the jumps in difficulty; upset that nothing happened with Bishop; upset about the ending. (yeah, a general feeling of upset lol);
First ME2 run I got choked up/got dust in my eye at no less than 5 moments in the main quest, I started a romance with Jacob, felt ready to murder him by the end of the game;
First DA:O run I was crushed when I couldn't rule side by side with Alistair as a human mage (healer);
First DA2 run as a rogue I was devastated by the Anders part, spitting mad for adding the mom part and generally upset by the ending;
First Morrowind run I was a Dunmer and it was the longest first run I even made in a game (over 1 month just one run because I was fascinated by the idea of leveling up by jumping, swimming and eating ) I would have loved being able to redeem Dagoth Ur/rule by his side since his 'disease' had made me immortal (I can still quote him even now "I'm a God, how can you kill a God? What a grand and intoxicating innocence, how could you be so naive? No Recall or Intervention will work in this place. Come, lay down your weapons, it's not too late for my mercy." ""Omnipotent, omniscient, sovereign, immutable, how sweet it is to be a God!" *sigh*)
These are the ones where I remember the first run even years and years later
Sorry for the long post