Stat increases in other BG1 NPCs?

Silence

As well as know, Jaheria, Minsc, Edwin and Viconia all received substantial stat bumps from BG1 to BG2. Many threads already exist which address whether or not BG:EE should provide these increases. (http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/3017 AND http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/2226). Fans in general seem to be in favour of this.

My question is different: should any other NPCs get minor stat boosts as well?

My opinion is that implementing all these increases will lead to a lot of the games already existing NPCs being ignored in favour of the BG2-powered ones. These characters were all great, I'd hate to see them completely ignored.

elminster

Leave them as they are. People will play them for the roleplaying experience, as they always have.

Tanthalas

I don't think any of the developers has mentioned that they would use the BG2 stats for the characters that also appear in BG1.

Xavioria

Well yea but what about certain npcs that get no love because of low stats like Quayle? Personally I wouldn't mind using him if he had a couple more points of wisdom, but it's so low so I never even considered him

Son_of_Imoen

Quayle is a real fun cleric-mage to have, even with his low WIS. People's use (well, gnome's use in this case) comes in their interaction with other people in the party. Quayle has a nice role in supporting the main arcane and divine casters in the party, if you want a 3-caster instead of 4-caster party. Leaves more space for warriors, rogues or just a lean party of 5 as in my last playthrough.

Silence

@Tanthalas: No, I don't think the developers have said anything about this, so it's probably unlikely. My post refers only to fan opinion. I found it odd we only discuss improving the NPCs that carry on to BG2.

Humanoid_Taifun

Wasn't there a mod like that already? Can't remember which one it was, but I distinctly remember being referred to a forum discussion with two long tables of attributes which were of course led by Imoen.

MadHab

Quayle would certainly benefit from a stats boost. And Xan could have a higher CON stat - after all, his sword alone is not enough to make him a decent melee mage...

Luge

Son_of_Imoen said:

Quayle is a real fun cleric-mage to have, even with his low WIS. People's use (well, gnome's use in this case) comes in their interaction with other people in the party. Quayle has a nice role in supporting the main arcane and divine casters in the party, if you want a 3-caster instead of 4-caster party. Leaves more space for warriors, rogues or just a lean party of 5 as in my last playthrough.

Quantity does't always mean quality. Although she is technically a caster, I find Viconia to be an excellent front-line warrior because of her high dex (low AC) and the fact that there are a number of very nice enchanted blunt weapons in BG.

As you progress through the game, most people want access to the more interesting and powerful abilities and spells. Quayle has a lot of low-level priest and mage spells, but often just one or two higher level would do a much better job - So his low WIS really cripples him.

L.

kamuizin

This thread is a little ahead it's time, don't you agree? We don't even know if more BG NPCs are be in BG2, and the stats changes only occur in the transition of BG to BG2, there's no sense in this thread atm dude.

pablo200783

Kagian should have 18/78 strenght, Xan 10 constituion, Branwen 15 strenght 14 charisma, Ajantis 18/55 strenght and 18 charisma, Iomen 10 strenght and 18 intelligence, Jaheria 16 wisdom. Minor change for stats will improve npc.

Crawley

But aren't their stats what adds some flavor to them? Most of BG1 NPCs who excel in one important stat, are handicapped in another. Kagain is a great tank, but lacks in dexterity and is a bit weaker. Shar-teel is very strong, but her con is weak.

DiscoCat

Yes, there should be some stat increases for BG1-only NPCs. They should be in line with each character's personality (for example, higher wis for Garrick doesn't make sense). There are already some mods that attempt this.

FillaFillason

DiscoCat said:

Yes, there should be some stat increases for BG1-only NPCs. They should be in line with each character's personality (for example, higher wis for Garrick doesn't make sense). There are already some mods that attempt this.

Is all priest equel wise, or is all religious people wise in d&d?

IchigoRXC

@Crawley The most in that sentence is quite apt, as most may excel in one and are rubbish in another. How about the Gnomes, Tiax excels in Crazy but lacks in stats. Quayle excels at sucking, but makes up for it with beard.

Silence

@kamuizin: Not too far ahead, I hope. I think it's an important discussion. And if the devs decide to implement the 'canon' stat changes, I would like them to at least consider improving the other NPCs to keep the playing field level. Or maybe it could be an issue for the modding community to address...I just think it's an interesting point many people skip over.

DiscoCat

@FillaFillason Is that english?

Pluc082

The only thing i want is to keep the stats we add to ncp in BG1 to BG2 (with tomes)

FillaFillason

@DiscoCat That was the idea, yes. Reading through it i realize it wasn't good enligsh, but you understood what I was trying to say? Let me try again, imo beeing an priest isn't synonymous whit beeing wise. Beeing an thife isn't synonymous whit beeing one of the most dexterity people in the world, and there are bards who sings epic and some witch just are light entertainmet.... Get my point now?

Dazzu

elminster said:

Leave them as they are. People will play them for the roleplaying experience, as they always have.

I'm curious what Roleplaying experience the modless player will have when his NPCs do not interact other than scripted banters that sometimes make no sense.

MilesBeyond

Absolutely. I completely agree. There are some NPCs that you would only take for the sake of taking them. Quayle and Tiax are the obvious two (Clerics with crappy WIS are no fun at all), but other characters like Khalid, Faldorn, Eldoth, Skie, Garrick, Safana and possibly Branwen (more might come to mind later) could certainly do with some stat boosts as well. It might even just be one or two points, but it'd be worth it.

Like, look at the characters I've mentioned. How often do they get used? Khalid a ton, but only because he's canon and paired with Jaheira. There's no way of checking for sure, but I would guarantee you he holds the BG World Record for Most (intentionally) Killed Off NPC. The rest hardly ever get picked up unless it's your fifth or sixth playthrough and you want to try something different and challenge yourself. Good parties will always prefer to pick up dudes like Minsc and Kivan, while evil parties will always be going for Kagain and Edwin. Neutral parties... Well, neutral NPCs kinda suck, I guess, but they can draw from good and evil.

Anyway, I guess the point is that there are too many "Just for laughs" NPCs that are both so statistically inferior and so off the beaten trail that the odds of them being included are close to nothing unless someone is intentionally chasing them. Having one or two like that is fun, but I feel like in BG the number of "useless NPCs" is roughly half.

kamuizin

@Dazzu, as we expect the BG2 banter system surelly is added to BG EE, otherwise there's no sense in making an enhanced version of BG (with all the forbbidens to changes and etc...). If BG1 NPCs do not have added banters in this Enhanced Version, i probally will pass a BG2 or any other EE made by Beamdog. Indepth background and interation is the least we expect from a BG EE.

Dazzu

And as said, they're not allowed to do just that.