A Possibility for Improving CHA
MilesBeyond
Member Posts: 324
So we all know that CHA tends to be a bit of a "dump stat." There's also been a few threads around wondering at the possibility of expanding the party size.
I propose we kill two birds with one stone.
Here's the deal. For every 2 points of CHA above 14 that CHARNAME has, one extra NPC can be added to the party. So the party can consist of 7 at 16 CHA and 8 at 18 CHA. Now there's some temptation to put more points into CHA, so you can have a bigger party (since it really didn't do all that much before), and a larger party is something that those who don't want can easily avoid entirely (unless you play as a Paladin, I suppose...)
Have it only check base CHA, and that will prevent people from creating low CHA characters and then cheesing things like Friends, Ring of Human Influence, etc to get 8 party members.
Thoughts on this?
I propose we kill two birds with one stone.
Here's the deal. For every 2 points of CHA above 14 that CHARNAME has, one extra NPC can be added to the party. So the party can consist of 7 at 16 CHA and 8 at 18 CHA. Now there's some temptation to put more points into CHA, so you can have a bigger party (since it really didn't do all that much before), and a larger party is something that those who don't want can easily avoid entirely (unless you play as a Paladin, I suppose...)
Have it only check base CHA, and that will prevent people from creating low CHA characters and then cheesing things like Friends, Ring of Human Influence, etc to get 8 party members.
Thoughts on this?
3
Comments
I still like the concept of 2 extra (optional) party members, despite the balancing issues.
The concept is interesting, and in a way, it makes sense. Having such a high base charisma would likely provide some kind of charm/leadership benefits. However, as has already been said, being able to permanently add 1-2 characters to your party is just too powerful a benefit from an ability score.
Yes, you'd need more XP to level up, but your increased damage/durability would easily offset and overwhelm that drawback. Ultimately, charisma should not be able to add a benefit like this, even if it's an appealing one.
I disagree entirely. Don't forget that with extra party members, XP is being distributed even more thinly.
I've found that you'll always have an easier time with a party of 4 than with a party of 6. Less people = faster experience gains, and especially with spellcasters, this translates into massive power gains in a shorter amount of time.
Think about it. You've got a party of 8. Let's say that at least 3 of them are MC. That level up sound is going to be rare and hard-earned. You're going to have more people, at the price of them all being weaker.
I might actually go so far as to suggest that 8 might even be more difficult than 6, especially in the beginning where you'd be fighting Tazok with most of your characters hovering around lvl 2. Like I said, 6 is generally more difficult than 4, so wouldn't that translate? You'd probably have to grind pretty heavily to get them to even approach the level that a party of 6 would be at by the end of the game, and you'd have to spend half the game grinding if you ever wanted to max out.
Seriously, try it out. Create a PC who can cast some divine magic (I'd say preferably a F/C or F3->C), and then grab Imoen, Minsc and Dynaheir. It might be more difficult at first, but once things get rolling you'll be on easy street. Especially if you decide to replace Immy with Coran when you get to Chapter 4.
Bigger parties are limited XP wise; the only reason I'd want more members is that there are so many NPCs to choose! If I had 8, I'd want 9. If 9... You get my drift.
But you can't control this many characters as once with full efficiency.
I could see this working without the need for 8 characters could be 8 or less CHA could be 1 party member, 10 being 2, 12 being 3, and 14 on up the full 6 so having a decent CHA would be essential, but not needing rdiculous amounts of it.
You could do something like 18+ CHA = 6 party size, 16 CHA =5, 14 CHA = 4, 12 CHA = 3, 10 CHA = 2, <10 = solo baby!
However this a great restriction for party banter/NPC dialogue which is one of BG's main strengths. I'd prefer to simply go with more dialogue options and quest solutions.
I'd also love it if your INT < 7 severly changes all dialogue options and an INT of 3 would mean that the only dialogue option for your character in any interaction would be "Barbarbarbar . . . BAR!" (which is the origin of the word Barbarian, as the Greeks thought foreigners sounded like they were saying "barbarbarbarbar").
I especially liked Arcanum's low INT journal. Could you imagine that in Baldur's Gate? Chapter 2: "Man smell bad. Ask kill demons. They in mine. Me go now."
Having CHA should have a broader impact on your dialogue choices.
It does to an extent - I recently made a character with kinda crappy CHA and I couldn't get a few NPCs to join me (Kivan, for example). But more of a change might be nice.
Hahaha they did that for Neverwinter Nights, where if your INT was below a certain number (9 I think), you had the funniest dialogue options. Absolutely loved it, it was unfortunate I always made sure I had a relatively good INT score.
What about keeping your followers happy, so they don't fight or leave? Your charisma score could affect the reputation value, up or down, that followers leave at, and whether npc conflict occurred between party members?
18 charisma - Ignore reputation for the purpose of characters leaving. Characters with even direct enmity toward each other will not fight. (Rare exceptions, like Ajantis. The paladin code is pretty strict.)
17 charisma - Ignore reputation for the purpose of characters leaving. Characters with general enmity toward each other will not fight (Yeslick and Kagain, Khalid / Jaheria and Zhar / Montaron, etc.)
16 charisma - Ignore reputation (unless 0 or 20, e.g., 1 to 19) for the purpose of characters leaving. Characters with general enmity toward each other will not fight (Yeslick and Kagain, Khalid / Jaheria and Zhar / Montaron, etc.)
15 charisma - Ignore reputation (3 to 17) for the purposes of characters leaving.
Its a little extreme at the higher end, but I keep remembering that 18 charisma is supposed to be the best (demi-)humanity has to offer as a leader. It would make the ring of leadership and influence actually mean something.
Gentlemen, excellent ideas. Those ideas coupled with a new dialogue options and a few extra quest solutions sound most reasonable.