[Not An Issue] Major Dual Class and Bard Issues
fangGWJ
Member Posts: 1
The way it is currently implemented, most of the benefits of dual classing has been removed.
First the bugs:
Cleric dualed into ranger:
C2R level 1 ranger can assign points to ranger weapons but cannot equip them;
once cleric abilities are unlocked, ranger can no longer put points into or use ranger weapons (even though they show in the skill interface);
can put third point into two weapon style
Problems with design choices:
Dual class characters can be potentially very powerful but there are significant trade offs: you can no longer advance in the prior class and you need to level 1 higher in order to unlock the prior class abilities.
Adding more negative side effects such as not being able to use weapons and equipment of both classes and restricting class combinations to the same as multi-classing really limits the benefits of dual classing dramatically. Right now it only makes sense to dual class if you want to pad some fighter hitpoints onto a thief or mage.
Bards:
The kits are really nice on paper but the fact that you cannot attack while singing and you are automatically stopped from singing when you are attacked limits the effectiveness when combined with the relatively small song radius of the jester.
I was under the impression that in the majority of AD&D 2e games bards learned spells like sorcerers instead of having to scribe them like mages. Plus bards were able to learn limited healing spells or at least cure light wounds.
First the bugs:
Cleric dualed into ranger:
C2R level 1 ranger can assign points to ranger weapons but cannot equip them;
once cleric abilities are unlocked, ranger can no longer put points into or use ranger weapons (even though they show in the skill interface);
can put third point into two weapon style
Problems with design choices:
Dual class characters can be potentially very powerful but there are significant trade offs: you can no longer advance in the prior class and you need to level 1 higher in order to unlock the prior class abilities.
Adding more negative side effects such as not being able to use weapons and equipment of both classes and restricting class combinations to the same as multi-classing really limits the benefits of dual classing dramatically. Right now it only makes sense to dual class if you want to pad some fighter hitpoints onto a thief or mage.
Bards:
The kits are really nice on paper but the fact that you cannot attack while singing and you are automatically stopped from singing when you are attacked limits the effectiveness when combined with the relatively small song radius of the jester.
I was under the impression that in the majority of AD&D 2e games bards learned spells like sorcerers instead of having to scribe them like mages. Plus bards were able to learn limited healing spells or at least cure light wounds.
Post edited by Jalily on
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
For other dual classes, this is not the case (such as fighter/mage or similar).
Clerics are limited by their gods and are not allowed to use piercing weapons. Blame the powers
Spellcasting for bards is also according to the rules.
Re Bards: It was in 3E that Bards got spells like Sorcerers, not 2E, sorcerers weren't even a class till 3rd edition. I also think the healing you're thinking about (though I may be wrong here) is from First Edition Bards...where they were "jacks of all trades" and got Mage and Clerical spell levels...kinda a fighter/mage/cleric class. That said at higher levels (10th?) a bard does get a regeneration song...which actually becomes pretty much the definitive way for a party to heal since it turns on 2 second regeneration for all characters...especially for evil parties, this is almost invaluable in and of itself.
Regarding Songs: Yes, bards stop singing when they attack. There is a bard AI script that makes bards much more playable regarding songs and attacking. I forget the name (Bard Controlled Maybe?) but it allows you to hit various keys to keep the bard from attacking while singing or to stop singing and start attacking...it also toggles signing while not attacking so that you don't have to constantly tell your bard to sing a recovery song.
Regarding Bard Kits: I wasn't very impressed with any bard kit other than the default bard when I played with them. Bards are gimp enough as it is, but when you get all of your songs removed for the few benefits of the kit they really become pretty useless. As it is, however, that's the implementation, it's not a bug, it's intentional, as bad as it is. Bards are generally useful for identification and songs...they're terrible at combat anyway...I tend to treat them as pretty much as useless as mages are. And speaking of mages, they do act very well as secondary mage classes.
Re Ranger/Cleric: The post before me is correct, cleric classes have weapon restrictions. There is NO WAY AROUND THIS. ANY Multi or Dual class incorporating a cleric restricts your character forever more to Maces, Clubs, Flails, Hammers, Staves and Slings. That said, in IWD most of the best weapons in the game are Maces, Hammers and Flails, so it's not as much of a heartache. Still, Cleric/Ranger is a really powerful class combination: I tend to include one in all my parties. Between the access to both Cleric and Druid spells, along with access to Ranger natural Dual Wield, I find the Cleric/Ranger to be a huge melee damage dealer.
While the weapon restriction does limit the class, it certainly doesn't gimp them in any way, especially in IWD/HoW.