A question about Dual-Classing

Belanos

If I have a Fighter dual over to either a Cleric or a Druid, would those characters be able to eventually Grandmaster like a Fighter can? I have a character rolled up now that can become a Cleric, but I'm having a tough time coming up with one for a Druid. They need a lot of points to become decent characters. I'm figuring 94 altogether, which isn't easy to get. And that doesn't even max anything out, except for Strength. I'm thinking of each having only the one Fighter level, then switching over with their first level up.

RAM021

Yes
Although you need two Fighter levels to dual and a minimum of three is much better.

Belanos

RAM021 said:

Yes
Although you need two Fighter levels to dual and a minimum of three is much better.

So why two levels? And what is the advantage of waiting until three? If it's going to take that long, I may as well forget about the Fighter/Druid and just go for the Cleric. And will the Cleric be able to put proficiency points into any weapon besides the ones that it's allowed to use? Could I, for instance, have a Cleric wielding a Long Sword and becoming a Grandmaster at it? I've already assigned points into Flail so it's not an issue, but I'm curious.

Belanos

So why is it that when I'm not really trying I end up with the high point values? I had spent forever trying to roll my Fighter to switch over to the Druid and always fell short. But just now while looking to see what a Half-Elf Fighter/Druid would look like, I rolled a 96 right away. Go figure!

RAM021

Fighter/Druid multi is better anyway...

Belanos said:

RAM021 said:

Yes
Although you need two Fighter levels to dual and a minimum of three is much better.

So why two levels? And what is the advantage of waiting until three? If it's going to take that long, I may as well forget about the Fighter/Druid and just go for the Cleric. And will the Cleric be able to put proficiency points into any weapon besides the ones that it's allowed to use? Could I, for instance, have a Cleric wielding a Long Sword and becoming a Grandmaster at it? I've already assigned points into Flail so it's not an issue, but I'm curious.

1 - Rules
2 - Additional proficiency pips
3 - Long? Fighter3/Druid4 is FASTER than Druid5... As is Ftr3/Clr4 faster than Clr5
4 - No
5 - No

Belanos

RAM021 said:

Fighter/Druid multi is better anyway...

Well if I have to wait for my Fighter to gain three levels before dualing to Cleric, I'm going to need some sort of healer before then. I got pretty much trounced in that first cave with the Orcs, there's a lot of them in there. I had originally thought of a Cleric/Ranger but I didn't really like the idea of having two blunt weapon users in the party. So I've set my Fighter/Druid up to be able to use a Scimitar. At least I should end up with a Grandmaster Cleric in the end. And a faster one at that. Thanks for the info by the way. I've been playing these games off and on for years now but I've never bothered with dual-classing at all, only multi.

Ancalagon44

Belanos said:

So why is it that when I'm not really trying I end up with the high point values? I had spent forever trying to roll my Fighter to switch over to the Druid and always fell short. But just now while looking to see what a Half-Elf Fighter/Druid would look like, I rolled a 96 right away. Go figure!

Because you can't dual class a level 1 character.

No, clerics can never use bladed weapons, whether they are multi or dual class.

Belanos

Ancalagon44 said:

Because you can't dual class a level 1 character.

I realize that, but you missed my point. I wasn't trying to dual a Fighter to a Druid right away, I was just trying to create a character that could do so at some point later on. I spent over an hour trying to roll a 94 to give him the stats he needed, but without even wanting to I rolled a 96 on the multi-class first time out. I wasn't really intending on creating a character, I just wanted to see what kind of proficiencies it would end up with. As Alanis would say, "Isn't it ironic?"

Ancalagon44

So what is your question? Are you asking if it is worth dualling, considering that it is more difficult to make a fighter with the required stats?

Really up to you and it also depends on who else is in your party. I used a multi class fighter/druid because I needed the healing abilities early in the game. If you are going to dual, dual class no earlier than level 7. Fighters get an extra half attack per round at level 7. Don't bother dualling at 2 or 3 - you will not be getting the most out of your fighter levels.

Belanos

Ancalagon44 said:

If you are going to dual, dual class no earlier than level 7. Fighters get an extra half attack per round at level 7. Don't bother dualling at 2 or 3 - you will not be getting the most out of your fighter levels.

That's a long time to wait in order to have a Cleric in the party. My main concern was to have a Cleric that was able to Grandmaster, plus have extra Strength. An extra half attack per round doesn't really sound like that great of a bonus frankly, I'm more concerned about the proficiency bonuses the Cleric will get.

Ancalagon44

Think about it - going from 1 attack per round to 1.5 attacks per round is a 50% damage bonus. It's worth it. Yes, the effect is lessened when you eventually get grandmastery, which gives you 5/2 attacks per round. When you get to that level, the fighter dualled at 7 will have 3 attacks per round, whereas the fighter dualled at 3 will have 2.5 attacks per round. 20% more damage, which is still noticeable, plus more hitpoints, better THAC0, and not even a 1 level difference.

It is a long time to wait, which is why I would have one multi class cleric and one dual class cleric. For example, in my party I have a multi class fighter/druid and a dual class fighter -> cleric.

Belanos

Ancalagon44 said:

For example, in my party I have a multi class fighter/druid and a dual class fighter -> cleric.

Yes, that's the line up I'm going for now as well. I also have a Dwarven Defender, an Elf Dragon Disciple, a Half-Elf Skald and a Gnome Illusionist/Thief. So I'll take your word for it and not dual my Fighter until level 7. It's going to suck not having a Cleric for all that time though. I got my butt kicked in that very first cave with the Orcs. I guess I'll have to stock up on extra Potions of Healing.

Sed

At later stages those levels will be gained very fast, as the XP needed increases a lot. I would definitely wait until lvl 7.