Sneak attack toggle?

robopookie

Hi, I was just wondering how the sneak attack option worked. Do you have to set it before a new game, or can it be freely changed mid-game? Can you abuse it in fights? Like, backstab a mage, then swap to sneak attack for the rest of the fight? Thanks in advance.

billygreat

You can freely change it mid-game. As for the abuse part , I did not tried yet.

Fardragon

Good luck finding a mage.

robopookie

Good to know it's not locked in, thanks

RedViiper

What's the difference in the two?

the_spyder

Back-stab only works if the thief is hidden or otherwise invisible AND behind the target. Sneak attack I think does less damage, but can be done any time you are behind an opponent, unless I am mistaken. Back-stab is 2E. Sneak attack is 3E and above.

MrGoodkat

If it works the way it does in 3rd Edition you basically trigger a sneak attack every time you attack an enemy that's not facing you directly and/or is attacking someone else. You also get sneak attacks on targets that are unconscious, paralyzed, etc. and you get sneak attacks when you are at least partially invisible. However, sneak attack damage is much lower to make up for its frequency.

Backstab applies a huge damage multiplier when you attack someone from stealth or invisibility but does nothing in a regular fighting scenario.

Please don't just take my word for it though as I haven't tested it myself yet in IWD:EE.

Frond

I've run three parties now with thieves and stalkers and am *loving* the sneak attack/backstab.

Backstab is the same as it was on BG, 3e sneak attack goes by d6 (ie. 1d6 at lvl one and improves till 5?d6) and adds a scaling debuff call crippling strike that reduces a foe's THACO and AC, I believe. The perk of sneak attacking is that you don't need to be stealthed, just behind the target, while the drawback is reduced damage.

And yes, you can toggle mid-fight. Open with a x3 backstab, pause, toggle, and whack em again for 3d6 extra damage. Cheesy yes, but oh so enjoyable.

robopookie

Sounds like I'm going to have a lot of fun with my assassin then

MrGoodkat

There's one thing worth noting that I forgot. According to the manual you can only sneak attack *once* per target. This is pretty significant because as I said earlier the frequency of occurrence is what makes sneak attacks great in 3rd edition D&D. It also makes thief/mage multi or dual class combos much less potent since you can't just cast Improved Invisibility on yourself for free perma sneak attacks.

But then again if you're playing any combination of fighter and thief and you're not actively looking for backstabs 3E sneak attack is still gonna be the better option in terms of combat prowess. Don't know about the switching it on and off mid combat thing... It's super cheesy and very stressful imho.

TvrtkoSvrdlar

@MrGoodkat

I'm confused

Does the thief get sneak attacks only once per mob, or with every hit s/he's behind the target?

Because if it's the former, then sneak attacks are inferior to the regular backstab we all know.

But if it's the latter, and your thief can keep whackin' from behind, then it's a viable option.

So, which is it?

jackjack

Once per individual target, I believe.

Wowo

jackjack said:

Once per individual target, I believe.

That seems so arbitrary. I'd love a third aspect with something along the lines that pure class thieves (kitted or not) get the 3e SA repeatedly but if they dual or multi then only once per mob. Would do wonders for the viability of having a single class thief in a party.

Someone want to make a mod for this?

MrGoodkat

TvrtkoSvrdlar said:

@MrGoodkat

I'm confused

Does the thief get sneak attacks only once per mob, or with every hit s/he's behind the target?

Because if it's the former, then sneak attacks are inferior to the regular backstab we all know.

But if it's the latter, and your thief can keep whackin' from behind, then it's a viable option.

So, which is it?

According to the manual you get one sneak attack per individual target but it doesn't require you to be stealthed. So as far as I understand it 10 enemies = 10 sneak attacks

In 3rd edition games like NWN you can sneak attack the same target repeatedly as long as the necessary conditions apply.

Frond

It would be awesome to see someone make a mod that removes the whole "toggle" thing. For instance; if you're stealthed behind the target it's a backstab, if not, it's just a sneak attack. I would enjoy it quite a bit, anyway.

BelgarathMTH

I tried the 3rd edition version, and it never happened unless my thief was perfectly positioned behind the enemy, just as with regular 2nd edition backstab.

So, it's not as easy to use as a true 3rd edition sneak attack. The 3rd edition version as implemented in Neverwinter Nights can happen repeatedly, works with a bow, and will proccess if the target is attacking someone other than the thief, regardless of position.

I find it pretty weak as implemented in Icewind Dale, so I've just been sticking with traditional 2nd edition backstab, which I know how to use.

In the EE edition, I'm finding having my thief's stealth action divided into two necessary skills (he must raise both Hide in Shadows and Move Silently) makes it much harder for him to gain reliable stealth to use for backstabbing, while still raising Open Locks and Find Traps. The original Icewind Dale had a single stealth skill for theives. So, it might be a good thing in EE to have 2 thieves in the party - one to specialize in locks and traps, and another to specialize in stealth for scouting and backstabbing.